From nobody Wed Sep 8 04:13:08 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D29433A24B3 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 04:12:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6ql4XHZs3Nmu for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 04:12:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x42c.google.com (mail-pf1-x42c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::42c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3205F3A24AE for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 04:12:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x42c.google.com with SMTP id f65so1735622pfb.10 for ; Wed, 08 Sep 2021 04:12:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=cQrvXuPh2MlHGJTRnTRipMn+omEh0XoRoji0qgiqwSc=; b=PlpEgnpzf+yuxJAI0tX4i/1bi84MC/DPUjCUkJZ72PrNC/adpEj27/iL6rwBxkZky+ jwAx0TUdThtIJNkFb5ilW+4mQdtgF1s8/PO7ym5nfJ6ibEbMYR00sDyhNyEHFqypGJ7T So370yNH7IAb3hwqdz3i6Yms+hYPaOhdDO6Jxn9PPXz0Zis0DYb0DHNLzy6VQzccV9li R6wRQ8yDnIF7Aigg4yF8m+rll+5AEyCeAsZ8+qK2inZS8A8J0TnrLfXIBUT9f58gLJLV RLuonwSVzrynuGYFQLB7Sdn8UTiMY6jVNbzMn8sM9MUiQLrYTmOS6FuaPkx5uxUrftYz 6X1Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=cQrvXuPh2MlHGJTRnTRipMn+omEh0XoRoji0qgiqwSc=; b=kb42ALEQ+lTCTRuxE5h73HwUJ7oXNUjHXvMS72dCfhNeH2ZNGVT/GBqOsB1AZJWjO5 3wxB+KmZaZaPR6qZ2sOj56AH5x8KaP/on6SdzPjmiGjTQHJcqp4BLJDgZbPfVb9pc2mO obb27IKBpiXD9p1KNV8yconIV7uLsqToA58K7eZOk5u3u91ewT79ojVQw8FWYo+Gx+ZT EtA69tcR1JxTkUM30sa/lhK5EOlzvyagoZDhMZ0ffgNy6TbViUEmCrNot6pl/bjWYAZi UZNAdAjhjRBB9B4ffSgtImHWwlAda2kcHD8loB/B25Xc3wDvJWDsZ3HSJNVPIcJgnxSs XNJQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530hiAp5GOevvSpSjcw7ugZ9FNWalzvbllVcobbnh57RL48CsY6z VkQ4x9xEsYr5xuhp9+p9K0QtmpbSiN7ZZzpEU1rqBAHB X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwvosQl/Y3o5ApNjDBX5pteWM5i4ZXv6+D8ctMfazZWA2syZ+dyVH+0zmYIbnP4R/Imgl/UV96l86XStJ5xuPw= X-Received: by 2002:a63:c10b:: with SMTP id w11mr3241162pgf.228.1631099572570; Wed, 08 Sep 2021 04:12:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Glyn Normington Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2021 12:12:41 +0100 Message-ID: To: jsonpath@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009dcef605cb79f6b1" Archived-At: Subject: [Jsonpath] truthy and falsy X-BeenThere: jsonpath@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A summary description of the list to be included in the table on this page List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2021 11:13:07 -0000 --0000000000009dcef605cb79f6b1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" The terms "truthy" and "falsy" are used in the current draft, but are not defined. Please could someone provide a (pointer to a) good definition? Regards, Glyn --0000000000009dcef605cb79f6b1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The terms "truthy" and "falsy" are us= ed in the current draft, but are not defined. Please could someone provide = a (pointer to a) good definition?

Regards,
Glyn
--0000000000009dcef605cb79f6b1-- From nobody Wed Sep 8 10:54:28 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 115003A15EB for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 10:54:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XgKox_ykNyqk for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 10:54:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pj1-x102e.google.com (mail-pj1-x102e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::102e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 770C43A2EFC for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 10:54:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pj1-x102e.google.com with SMTP id ot2-20020a17090b3b4200b0019127f8ed87so1686148pjb.1 for ; Wed, 08 Sep 2021 10:54:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=mFyeM08zKC5hCaIBTQNT3cYfK2ZnqfkbJG9SoSMHfUk=; b=kX4GVrLVU1ZnlC9bTukXEksqMWUzyWd4nziPGnUVHTznYUfo8KEWoufazBKvKK2nWO oyGzufiUVZZy50PVwZG+g2ELaT2Dl89lU2qlDmUxi41xT4cJYpehvPT8kCBKcN1h0UoK GYBji7Z6gQajSN9u9YTCJ3z3NIKH+3dv1gas4IRod1TNeHEaj6Kr82JGoarlyYi9MLPq JJjRPxjSXuwSOdOZANMIBKc8Jz+hGMpGTtLwgmRJbhX+Z9nvQTTThGAsRO8LVg6HBVKf v1Sr0XWCoz99dM7gJ2iW/QtQXfHxFtrKzHsO6ptak472Ky9pMP1zmKgeGtZCfVE7vIwu zmdA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=mFyeM08zKC5hCaIBTQNT3cYfK2ZnqfkbJG9SoSMHfUk=; b=GD+CtYwYL6/4T6SOX57jlpIdjhurnIF84krXeFCJHVA+K5L+bZ+3oCGzGPCLEzcqBr P0Sr2NmzlyFVmD4ScTMNTbKAuVos1VCGzEIf0q8OKDD7Yd8fM3f1nXubUxUiPI5V4URo u0CQ1IQG7yAm3UOChpbn8PgrKGBClP8maAT051jFb4zY2BIfHXZ+S3THaPb7IwSTTlWR WdG1lJt1nuqiWHxNaD4fgproGLliNXx+I+drwnzzl8P8a0pl2f920vl0/YGPo947GT2O NHi3GD4wUT3lgGRGTQbqL7JRk7k1QK5/ewdTFmchtcJmZgG/k47H3uk+gNxVHURrbuAt 5VRw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532BbWQpOh1sSdaK3Ljgjr6okb+LpRoYZKBXdwK0TcK5qS1xBlPR 9+dzDNMt6a/x4g9ftYIrZDsnCRtgMm4slcRpb3y85okMj8k= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxn/7JkoThp5+2npkyz9sHMjbraxTRFX9HCNYi33CxzPyq+SPQJGbm3DBNjn75aqQex3RPoh2r/VcWxDUTtdz4= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:c643:b0:138:b603:f940 with SMTP id s3-20020a170902c64300b00138b603f940mr4051789pls.71.1631123659972; Wed, 08 Sep 2021 10:54:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Daniel P Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2021 13:54:07 -0400 Message-ID: To: jsonpath@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: [Jsonpath] truthy and falsy X-BeenThere: jsonpath@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A summary description of the list to be included in the table on this page List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2021 17:54:27 -0000 Glyn Normington wrote > The terms "truthy" and "falsy" are used in the current draft, but are not > defined. Please could someone provide a (pointer to a) good definition? Perhaps this may be helpful? https://craftinginterpreters.com/evaluating-expressions.html#truthiness-and-falsiness Given that the conditions for being "falsey" are somewhat arbitrary, and that most of them are represented in one implementation or another, it may be useful to have an appendix that provides an analysis of some of the differences between the main implementations, and the rationale for the one settled on. Daniel From nobody Wed Sep 8 11:00:12 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B86263A310E for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 11:00:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jcAdLzF_OoSV for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 11:00:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-x62f.google.com (mail-pl1-x62f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::62f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4AAEC3A310C for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 11:00:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-x62f.google.com with SMTP id j2so1819923pll.1 for ; Wed, 08 Sep 2021 11:00:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=LIw9opDjHfVaEII87LJJCFJy+93D1sLIoXqFGxx7nEY=; b=gX/ObR28Fx5cFZBFJW6k7HcbKZRNmpT41i2OP/AAq727GvBJjKwUuVzgyte5SXe/KD ghhY6RWtJwzQ+Cu42w9lCq9RLZPTLBlsOzUNNKZtP6gV+j5r8Nj7FjUy/Oz5VLuXQu3J CkemTnLxesQHLtZouhR+BEvMNfsTVcmxHrXleivmNG8M5NlIsk4BxHyYXFFhyN7/RP7k Fes6w6/v7nEWEItQBV7mGxul4jpS69566VE34ih4YoxVAxNGJqUV/RrQBkQpkJU+FXaa foWBiMUPXfeSpZFpuh8Y7QD1s/xKv4XoSVnPIN4jiQiLFSqne/QROKGQYBlmVIiIyGFX iUxw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=LIw9opDjHfVaEII87LJJCFJy+93D1sLIoXqFGxx7nEY=; b=7uPLdbnWHJ7hPKlR4uA1S8uShCZupxbjYq8gFger4Zc4Kqct79ebiZtIbTRX341kgK Ix+cPvTfx7+KsphirMMIWFlM+jzI6ecd32POhisFBQ15gn308e/PopL+I/9/D1V80n3r rpmpn84n6WTCtPf/8I/6Rf6rfrSfkrdt+KnbJ7Dj0U+B6rXufK2xCra6vSrcF+VW4+jY iGG7kCbERJ8fivIn5OoZrGbEJ8zJ7GPyPdzSJGjsWyCM/a0tDvkw4UvQ3rTkRHJmhOzY TKaNKmvzVTJTyqHN2CPXT3KYeazOCre+VWV9Zu25s0xb5cJyobZYfDK19mycyJgJHQ1Q HZBQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5321XJnDaO5EX+DU/ZcZjbzH1VMw9+KUNZK5oJQZLZcYWXfZ++DN 1GpedTAqYOqYx3b9q+SZlGAuTVuXgP4WkVrvuYG0IrVa X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwh2O2HkpWOpfnJqnjAzCmovqW19ZszU5bXrByRbnvcZiyo5lV/dWPeAv9w5clEaqWpeuVaYox/Ep1qa2f79ew= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:11cc:: with SMTP id gv12mr5483092pjb.144.1631124002814; Wed, 08 Sep 2021 11:00:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Glyn Normington Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2021 18:59:51 +0100 Message-ID: To: Daniel P Cc: jsonpath@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c5be6f05cb7fa67d" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Jsonpath] truthy and falsy X-BeenThere: jsonpath@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A summary description of the list to be included in the table on this page List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2021 18:00:10 -0000 --000000000000c5be6f05cb7fa67d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Thanks Daniel. That link explained the idea nicely. We also need to settle on the specifics for JSONPath and document them. On Wed, 8 Sep 2021, 18:54 Daniel P, wrote: > Glyn Normington wrote > > > The terms "truthy" and "falsy" are used in the current draft, but are not > > defined. Please could someone provide a (pointer to a) good definition? > > Perhaps this may be helpful? > > > https://craftinginterpreters.com/evaluating-expressions.html#truthiness-and-falsiness > > Given that the conditions for being "falsey" are somewhat arbitrary, > and that most of them are represented in one implementation or > another, it may be useful to have an appendix that provides an > analysis of some of the differences between the main implementations, > and the rationale for the one settled on. > > Daniel > > -- > Jsonpath mailing list > Jsonpath@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonpath > --000000000000c5be6f05cb7fa67d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Daniel. That link explained the idea nicely. We al= so need to settle on the specifics for JSONPath and document them.
On Wed, 8= Sep 2021, 18:54 Daniel P, <d= anielaparker@gmail.com> wrote:
Glyn Normington wrote

> The terms "truthy" and "falsy" are used in the cur= rent draft, but are not
> defined. Please could someone provide a (pointer to a) good definition= ?

Perhaps this may be helpful?

http= s://craftinginterpreters.com/evaluating-expressions.html#truthiness-and-fal= siness

Given that the conditions for being "falsey" are somewhat arbitra= ry,
and that most of them are represented in one implementation or
another, it may be useful to have an appendix that provides an
analysis of some of the differences between the main implementations,
and the rationale for the one settled on.

Daniel

--
Jsonpath mailing list
J= sonpath@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonp= ath
--000000000000c5be6f05cb7fa67d-- From nobody Wed Sep 8 11:16:31 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B2883A3181 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 11:16:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lNNU_2qtp-io for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 11:16:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1CA593A3180 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 11:16:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p548dcf6e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.207.110]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4H4Vh70jZ8z33Zv; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 20:16:23 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2021 20:16:22 +0200 Cc: jsonpath@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 652817782.393067-1b7b73decc2130ee6a2bb0a2d8310718 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: Daniel P X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Jsonpath] truthy and falsy X-BeenThere: jsonpath@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A summary description of the list to be included in the table on this page List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2021 18:16:30 -0000 On 2021-09-08, at 19:54, Daniel P wrote: >=20 > Perhaps this may be helpful? >=20 > = https://craftinginterpreters.com/evaluating-expressions.html#truthiness-an= d-falsiness As this text states, the concept of falsy is of interest only if there = are implicit conversions to Boolean. What are the places where we want to have those implicit conversions? Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Wed Sep 8 11:19:38 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B05D83A317F for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 11:19:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wHNqUsd8Eoc3 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 11:19:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x42c.google.com (mail-wr1-x42c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DFC473A3176 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 11:19:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x42c.google.com with SMTP id v10so4631313wrd.4 for ; Wed, 08 Sep 2021 11:19:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=WHRdpiiiTLeyUsHdEgZifUQ6l+5UgE9w+/UXzpcwpzE=; b=Sdsp3muDdnslN4ay287g/r2U4AycLX6vQazYzFbrPEFvALRVz9kzcGXbVULUHZ1nDP w1i2d8rWCQs4yGIIdBOjudKSTDfyYwhANEggWjGXN1aaohgOZN2AjlT7ZqKVmJeMKMmo TqcBcqDJzQPHULEKTlkB6gUXK61OGwUi8ljTm+OMDgq2CWEJBQAzBYL6v4r0FThl1HSE 4+TasyS2DTQLKWLziYGeYJBZ5aQuNrOpLCN8f4lCBIgXkIuNHqFw7v7y8ZzahQsR8gy6 s3J9REfOHosfZIA2I2Mfa0OLuiMSjqxD+ktIzHjO1m7D8Qw0EhW+6BNttqqTn74TzEP6 5h/Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=WHRdpiiiTLeyUsHdEgZifUQ6l+5UgE9w+/UXzpcwpzE=; b=L39eVeFpLk8hhS8foKYmfKfvhfcOfOJfr7hhYgH+pXCro8HpaV/L5q3uJ9Sdvq4MeE j7OvIClfE4dTvS0R7t8rG7Kbyx1V0vpaA3ssCkxH8ghE+4bgrIwDfr2Qu9gtUBip7Hl7 i1ZnemWSXShPS3inVtk10gZAuRyD59lXrhg+hRp0rTkEZfaLRQiJsKuFmkXqph34iLH6 IZ/sMEfh6g9mrKTFb4Sjlzf32inXQxFELrqKp0TTp6gzmb48dLDRrV5hEX5xKvf7N+EN eHqiLqHT5kvKh0jR6sH6WMmYGDzAfXe1ASt6FBRv+wrSsitxlKPilFdTW4i8FEIS/A0h Dc8g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531H7FVuA74qX09vN6i2n9Fe/mXf6iWZ9xMy2sN2Dr8jRjUfxR9f pnwBjxvIywRPT8+vcf0zhHbzxZV22X3tl6DdnFOxSICN23s= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxXRe73mF5lCZHPhoC0wQ2jWCQyZHMTfm/OELjEOZ3kQLwYsIaAhcC7aNO9obwNngvLT+izh4R294y/KRvLe0c= X-Received: by 2002:adf:dc8a:: with SMTP id r10mr5649985wrj.371.1631125169276; Wed, 08 Sep 2021 11:19:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Daniel P Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2021 14:19:16 -0400 Message-ID: To: Glyn Normington Cc: jsonpath@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Jsonpath] truthy and falsy X-BeenThere: jsonpath@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A summary description of the list to be included in the table on this page List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2021 18:19:37 -0000 Glyn, In the jsoncons implementations, I followed the JMESPath rule, described in https://jmespath.org/specification.html#or-expressions. Although I have to confess to being drawn to the simpler rule in Ruby and Lua: where only false and null (nil) are considered false. Daniel On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 at 2:00 PM Glyn Normington wrote: > > Thanks Daniel. That link explained the idea nicely. We also need to settle on the specifics for JSONPath and document them. > > On Wed, 8 Sep 2021, 18:54 Daniel P, wrote: >> >> Glyn Normington wrote >> >> > The terms "truthy" and "falsy" are used in the current draft, but are not >> > defined. Please could someone provide a (pointer to a) good definition? >> >> Perhaps this may be helpful? >> >> https://craftinginterpreters.com/evaluating-expressions.html#truthiness-and-falsiness >> >> Given that the conditions for being "falsey" are somewhat arbitrary, >> and that most of them are represented in one implementation or >> another, it may be useful to have an appendix that provides an >> analysis of some of the differences between the main implementations, >> and the rationale for the one settled on. >> >> Daniel >> >> -- >> Jsonpath mailing list >> Jsonpath@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonpath From nobody Wed Sep 8 12:42:05 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BBA13A34C1 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 12:41:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yahoo.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id je1TALy-eetw for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 12:41:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sonic305-2.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com (sonic305-2.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com [74.6.133.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7DF9B3A34B5 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 12:41:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1631130109; bh=YGwYjY5gu3oEWGpdqgKHI/un2ki3ajtoonDNh2ScnHI=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=SguwIeQViP/7e+vNv5cwDxC1tPPEZt4wR1f04SY86aPqMribvPh8eumlT9HjLyZEL4vWEjvgdkrFAlRfTpeYuoHXEIFzFgKoi9UuX72ZV3fOvWKw7J6oWuy3hycnNk1Yj+jKVPiPp7TSVMjEHqisemyzRypgzaSUue7CsP+9OB+yymMEAd0hWPMaXVhWoot8z/5jrK7qdPmVPkq8Oh5jT57yLgiyZKFdkZ1SjKId8k9Pz+rJp/rJjGQ2hwjFf3p/1c6sKjP7fTWhhpGsEERYzLLtJvBeoIK28uIN7S2Tyd9NDfMdduYp5BMD3b71hI7e5sePfWMqGi0jTmaZIxutUg== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1631130109; bh=5UYEZLR7i8QCI4KKE0848L79rdHpWRmB+5sRSkTpAMt=; h=X-Sonic-MF:Date:From:To:Subject:From:Subject; b=gdFl72dR9PYosSxqhxmCartqlhv/6PRqgnAEjJNWboOHWIOkngz+LdkDXQexJEfRk5P/zIDth9Mu02qhJ7Pfk9GHAl4hLNiwXqLV/nARgkoH1Mw4c7huV2bIzAeyQUJxWy7CN3JXIqitvmo0ETmXJ/5O9iB6Belyd/WcAJmXYdJeXTduThLUJLNw8XstSY2qz0zAysFNqcq0jpXQDjNKBtpIDKa3NlPV4sQrbAPHTdUoYbxdvuuVyKkjxuQABM86Nh9Kvq8AwH7M51f52bamvEkqvRRTxdIShaIE2Lz3eQjHdQNvmmeR04jFH552Ge5heJv4wXNRQxNgv8s8cCwnJw== X-YMail-OSG: etKpyoQVM1kfl_GVVdzSZK5JIh.ngsNgqIcFnu8.RgEG1G5ghvK8LzPJUoX1IfN wIboWy4SGoCztQyd.Z_XCJxlNfVnBKj.fmtcc1EQXRR0EYcndMMNGVTq_6YaNe84eJDCsitpoLhJ 6YHdpcUZT2UKFAzj4yTbUxnwX86Ql_yoG82rBZPZME2yPE2knKT9JVwOV.VamGM6.BcN97FGMzK5 b0NKa_.l2Dv6zwCe_2vhq7dIwATaKgj0uRbd9stz6E.1r3LIX8_kOEUZVLhXLnMlc6CC978a3T7K .zeWTDR_FC0ObmmGSm9t_upFmhi37qWQzgXWxZ7vT1t7ZZngtwEEHQ5vzW5urZDUkhzQS5fTA46p xGqlkHWOeTJ.bDddDcE8ho3My8zfLzys1RLJe1m2Y3pAX15ujv8l629mRSJ9cQbUmnPBzXnzSP4z C_2C6BQpG6AUGLSEmKndE8h4nEHf6X1yeNHT2sUOjSQTxqxhnLI2b087xev5rCxuvuGej6LlEk_. 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Greg =20 On Thu, 9 Sep 2021 at 6:19 am, Daniel P wrote: = Glyn, In the jsoncons implementations, I followed the JMESPath rule, described in https://jmespath.org/specification.html#or-expressions. Although I have to confess to being drawn to the simpler rule in Ruby and Lua: where only false and null (nil) are considered false. Daniel On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 at 2:00 PM Glyn Normington wrote: > > Thanks Daniel. That link explained the idea nicely. We also need to settl= e on the specifics for JSONPath and document them. > > On Wed, 8 Sep 2021, 18:54 Daniel P, wrote: >> >> Glyn Normington wrote >> >> > The terms "truthy" and "falsy" are used in the current draft, but are = not >> > defined. Please could someone provide a (pointer to a) good definition= ? >> >> Perhaps this may be helpful? >> >> https://craftinginterpreters.com/evaluating-expressions.html#truthiness-= and-falsiness >> >> Given that the conditions for being "falsey" are somewhat arbitrary, >> and that most of them are represented in one implementation or >> another, it may be useful to have an appendix that provides an >> analysis of some of the differences between the main implementations, >> and the rationale for the one settled on. >> >> Daniel >> >> -- >> Jsonpath mailing list >> Jsonpath@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonpath --=20 Jsonpath mailing list Jsonpath@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonpath =20 ------=_Part_2221033_1499318596.1631130103184 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I want us to be careful about supporting truthiness.  I've already com= mented on this several times (e.g. https://github.com/ietf-wg-jsonpath/draf= t-ietf-jsonpath-base/issues/64#issuecomment-831755108) that it's difficult = to support in strongly-typed languages.

Greg

On Thu, 9 Sep 2021 at 6:19 am, D= aniel P
<danielaparker@gmail.com> wrote:
Glyn,

In the jsoncons impl= ementations, I followed the JMESPath rule,
described in h= ttps://jmespath.org/specification.html#or-expressions.
Al= though I have to confess to being drawn to the simpler rule in Ruby
and Lua: where only false and null (nil) are considered false.
Daniel

On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 at = 2:00 PM Glyn Normington
<glyn.normington.work@gmail.com> wrote:
= >
> Thanks Daniel. That link explained the idea nic= ely. We also need to settle on the specifics for JSONPath and document them= .
>
> On Wed, 8 Sep 2021, 18:54 D= aniel P, <danielaparker@gmail.com> wrot= e:
>>
>> Glyn Normington wr= ote
>>
>> > The terms "t= ruthy" and "falsy" are used in the current draft, but are not
>> > defined. Please could someone provide a (pointer to a) g= ood definition?
>>
>> Perha= ps this may be helpful?
>>
>&g= t; https://crafting= interpreters.com/evaluating-expressions.html#truthiness-and-falsiness>>
>> Given that the conditi= ons for being "falsey" are somewhat arbitrary,
>> a= nd that most of them are represented in one implementation or
>> another, it may be useful to have an appendix that provides a= n
>> analysis of some of the differences between th= e main implementations,
>> and the rationale for th= e one settled on.
>>
>> Dan= iel
>>
>> --
>> Jsonpath mailing list
>> Jsonpath@ietf.org
>> https://= www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonpath

--
Jsonpath mailing list
Jsonpath@ietf.org
https://www.= ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonpath
------=_Part_2221033_1499318596.1631130103184-- From nobody Wed Sep 8 14:04:21 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34E373A3846 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 14:01:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id msHrSC7W4pEq for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 14:01:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x434.google.com (mail-wr1-x434.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::434]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CBBA83A383F for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 14:01:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x434.google.com with SMTP id q11so5201682wrr.9 for ; Wed, 08 Sep 2021 14:01:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=m3VffLsKnehEXv9pfAty84EwFfdvmn/Vew+NNqKAvnI=; b=iU9tWTCwk4iiqc65dSMGAzctvmUgx8kVd9hH2/1GoMZ6HsqGbxkad6IMwdpz7F+hj0 FGyHKDe0iSOvI8aJKWeeiziJquuRGdEH9BKMJ0fB3pj/muYsF60R7JN6kXLXigM0xTDL qexzn0rhZFz66JJH7bBt2/m6xrZVGQicMFbqaMB7BE06cFeGEFLPCfGponi15U+Bl/h9 tFwC4glnNF8rkEsRGcKOogliMucvNVnVVuss4oS+N6JnxYUSLLBgjqa4wU/l+V1raPH3 7qnfzoTRTTe+1p+d12SMuVd0P5EPhVa4VC0EYaMZaMOQ3ZmkikFpp2EL9gTkaxfjhqag +OUA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=m3VffLsKnehEXv9pfAty84EwFfdvmn/Vew+NNqKAvnI=; b=TkSbb7gC2tGdxe+3s/KY007CIqbBU7wtTLtUgcwd5nv7WLwlEp5LnnUV/dtIORMJT5 RUt/E5FFLFrD7zmRwZdXDUxCiD66CE+eggd9B6pPUlbohTl0R2s2rOUdSXfvVAwkUBcJ jmpNFnaoKBYnDMqJOiPTNjCzjaJRRSwpDynfvb6TbwnaMAq8NXaQKDwE7OGvcBE6X0uu w3OPzBVvMBRiGD7mvHvRivI2rtfcCnCfqOH0ZIXEZ0Y3JibeIkpR/3hZb7FP9OA17p8R FvVVtp3BT/62bZsu6bFl/kbL8a+ooqTxVgqtSmkIKLpBp73MmmN3imVc9mKKheaTFLOB jQVQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5321DM/X2J5vyiXXqFzdeHlEWMahoAhC38/8NTUiywa9EdrMfKz1 NA06urQevoivc3NqE4S842sR/CcrVbmPUfOjlaUshCp2 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzhWfh2BBdq7rdfTHh4pjuVlnesjNoNoJkQg4n+ZZ+gIAshVX0HTVRBpOVud97AZZ3DYvi1JGQStEqf/uRWZH8= X-Received: by 2002:adf:e645:: with SMTP id b5mr297140wrn.34.1631134895091; Wed, 08 Sep 2021 14:01:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <2105266982.2221034.1631130103186@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <2105266982.2221034.1631130103186@mail.yahoo.com> From: Daniel P Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2021 17:01:22 -0400 Message-ID: To: jsonpath@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Jsonpath] truthy and falsy X-BeenThere: jsonpath@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A summary description of the list to be included in the table on this page List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2021 21:01:43 -0000 Dennis, I don't understand your comment. In your cited comment, you comment on the binary operators '=3D=3D' vs '=3D=3D=3D' in JS, and express a preferenc= e for the latter. But that's a separate issue from "supporting truthiness", which is about evaluating a _single_ value as a boolean. Daniel On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 at 3:41 PM Greg Dennis wrote: > > I want us to be careful about supporting truthiness. I've already commen= ted on this several times (e.g. https://github.com/ietf-wg-jsonpath/draft-i= etf-jsonpath-base/issues/64#issuecomment-831755108) that it's difficult to = support in strongly-typed languages. > From nobody Wed Sep 8 14:30:20 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8E753A07B3 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 14:30:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yahoo.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QIxlgMUsZ2nS for ; 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Wed, 8 Sep 2021 21:30:11 +0000 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2021 21:29:27 +0000 (UTC) From: Greg Dennis Reply-To: Greg Dennis To: jsonpath@ietf.org Message-ID: <1031627769.2245629.1631136567046@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: <2105266982.2221034.1631130103186@mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2245628_1647422163.1631136567045" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.18924 YahooMailAndroidMobile Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Jsonpath] truthy and falsy X-BeenThere: jsonpath@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A summary description of the list to be included in the table on this page List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2021 21:30:18 -0000 ------=_Part_2245628_1647422163.1631136567045 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It's all the same in strong languages.=C2=A0 Casting of any kind is difficu= lt. Greg =20 =20 On Thu, 9 Sep 2021 at 9:01 am, Daniel P wrote: = Dennis, I don't understand your comment. In your cited comment, you comment on the binary operators '=3D=3D' vs '=3D=3D=3D' in JS, and express a preferenc= e for the latter. But that's a separate issue from "supporting truthiness", which is about evaluating a _single_ value as a boolean. Daniel On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 at 3:41 PM Greg Dennis wrote: > > I want us to be careful about supporting truthiness.=C2=A0 I've already c= ommented on this several times (e.g. https://github.com/ietf-wg-jsonpath/dr= aft-ietf-jsonpath-base/issues/64#issuecomment-831755108) that it's difficul= t to support in strongly-typed languages. > --=20 Jsonpath mailing list Jsonpath@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonpath =20 ------=_Part_2245628_1647422163.1631136567045 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It's all the same in strong languages.  Casting of any kind is difficu= lt.

Greg

=
On Thu= , 9 Sep 2021 at 9:01 am, Daniel P
<danielaparker@gmail.com>= wrote:
Dennis,

I don't understand your comment. In your cited comment, you comme= nt on
the binary operators '=3D=3D' vs '=3D=3D=3D' in JS,= and express a preference for
the latter. But that's a se= parate issue from "supporting truthiness",
which is about= evaluating a _single_ value as a boolean.

Daniel


------=_Part_2245628_1647422163.1631136567045-- From nobody Wed Sep 8 16:14:04 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B6A03A1187 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 16:14:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RyCgyX9uJP_V for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 16:13:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm1-x32a.google.com (mail-wm1-x32a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 630FD3A118C for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 16:13:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm1-x32a.google.com with SMTP id l7-20020a1c2507000000b002e6be5d86b3so38505wml.3 for ; Wed, 08 Sep 2021 16:13:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ry4Etow0GjmyyyjoiIdsNGFpqlw/F15+cZMzLEVuJAc=; b=IILkkZtQEzpg410F5uWN0XCOaepEJ2BhjYGpLVxQKzN6e3x7nwB9CACXTqXvMfouUd aG6AW6xeMJcQNqfUJmKW/TE2t7hcTO2ilfnZwqcErrHcNjUucJcxoQ7pLDog0LbVn7M9 +ufMx0/+rZ75cztLbViQllxX83S0XQiiA2+lZzLQI1yL1GMUZmgrn4Smw0ZgSxUDmHF7 3yqNUvWA2Mr1ews4SiOfrXR0GKLfWovKOV15xmRoVqDvZPTMP7wsqto1pMROZfhc7hYN 64LODE6i6YrYdUOUFJbS9IafP3uJHXusjk52uW8T8918rdKKVSp2W798jbXIxXNQvMUS s6dg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ry4Etow0GjmyyyjoiIdsNGFpqlw/F15+cZMzLEVuJAc=; b=R/g4AZ9qe0RAnLCgbbF/4ABLdu5hkWohsmRjg8+/+OUmqWKG+FMMKtjm67JOMhOmxw eprCXivl7wEzIsNeGquchL4kJ0RGYStQJcoNQfDaLR0UdzXgFglK6ast7YZHzfU8T2DS 1y0bH3x58e11gYdted9dtJ3LHPZr9mg51VKQLphu/+tAmwhyqZfFQBs1F/Hvg/A9Edfo edYwGI0/SXxwmR8bnGPwXtsF5RzSeUfVumY+rcuJmiZW8xYJN0A8GV8mIGh+OMGItpAY Cl1nTXVkrzR15VViS8nME4pYoCodmR5gx9UP+/JmOJECCZdzTSZeaXAEIyYvArYwZ+zL NfnA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532pxLYTFhbImrvxzE5ZsqcmFN9KYmSIQqBylfmQMsYBiaT5Ocud Liim12GtpCLISFQiRNzO+aCkyy+uHPKgbKjP68xY924W X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwCsuNynGpvBRcr/SgDofY9obEVU9KyzGihROEwltoWRExOAN3AYRbc95QT66AmA0hRZxrFmrtRXeE3vwWq4dw= X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:a08:: with SMTP id z8mr5849086wmp.165.1631142835944; Wed, 08 Sep 2021 16:13:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <2105266982.2221034.1631130103186@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <2105266982.2221034.1631130103186@mail.yahoo.com> From: Daniel P Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2021 19:13:43 -0400 Message-ID: To: Greg Dennis Cc: jsonpath@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Jsonpath] truthy and falsy X-BeenThere: jsonpath@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A summary description of the list to be included in the table on this page List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2021 23:14:02 -0000 Greg Dennis wrote: > >It's all the same in strong languages. Casting of any kind is difficult. Casting? What casting? And what is all "the same"? Determining whether a single value is truthy or falsey doesn't entail casting or conversion of any kind. It simply involves noting the value's type, and comparing that against a checklist. Daniel > On Thu, 9 Sep 2021 at 9:01 am, Daniel P wrote: Dennis, >>I don't understand your comment. In your cited comment, you comment on >>the binary operators '==' vs '===' in JS, and express a preference for >>the latter. But that's a separate issue from "supporting truthiness", >>which is about evaluating a _single_ value as a boolean. From nobody Wed Sep 8 17:21:39 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CD943A0A00 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 17:21:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yahoo.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0Es3jMCgY9gM for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 17:21:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sonic305-3.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com (sonic305-3.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com [74.6.133.42]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0B62C3A09FF for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 17:21:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1631146894; bh=eXfmVzKREqYTC+ycamCuD/8APW8XVIlg7KGsAqL50y8=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=Zt8H/FiJTBrWhYfhQKhRPhwoc0YpOxLNMHKSm7U71P3v24Z6RMJxg2+9bTQtClfmpn5CZZRwbxVWwS4g7BGSA6iXNo6KYlzVPMf01xKgOihELayiln9JvKoO2F6N7WL72+bIJ0KGejwNSHeiurqkEybt0YLwuto14VrsJq+MKcG/bNSUTdVkappKIDLkZcktC+HFSRvXi3+MGuPnpGcYZDy8SmXHjl7yVmAmBSWSwzZZtBxbVDGlnQtYAB6SOWCo/nssFww27UIJamSy8YVFEeZU80YKY3Ezk3zQ2+YS5IBDbY6M3OF6GmQbHZtUGjM6zywApA0Ky+1yL19mpmX3GQ== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1631146894; bh=PmLbtva/zhcODsL0DxQEMa9RESIYZqdQzYu50ILxsqj=; h=X-Sonic-MF:Date:From:To:Subject:From:Subject; b=Wf00U6DSBFGQn/KtD8eFqyDINdW0BwXxve6Z/QTtzsVVtfPvSfO5oefg0V19ufDzL5E7JlcMRqFuLFlF6jf22S9ehfHXImV4103FHDK2100Q9mI4c1LScBFfLrT3DIeIKBMRLj7uf3R528ua5okYEphIH9W9tF294/C5xYS1YyziZ0sW2Lu0mOxl3VkIx55AxJae0yUu6wQmFoiWS5jK11FKk259sNicmuQBuCJPW4CAdLgLKs9ZeW2PC/bLfLhUdupnR2OQ+idOmJJVEWTkeWIbaEL62CH1bhfbW0VB/g4jY9japf+YfBWNNIjGDIR+wiWGZdf+Y7ZmT9EvNv/K3Q== X-YMail-OSG: 6Z.RvCsVM1lY0CADOzNG3fbqhFXt271diU5oOx_Lw2HWTZ3FGw5HjPyBkztPPH. 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Greg =20 =20 On Thu, 9 Sep 2021 at 11:13 am, Daniel P wrote: = Greg Dennis wrote: > >It's all the same in strong languages.=C2=A0 Casting of any kind is diffic= ult. Casting? What casting? And what is all "the same"? Determining whether a single value is truthy or falsey doesn't entail casti= ng or conversion of any kind. It simply involves noting the value's type, and comparing that against a checklist. Daniel >=C2=A0 On Thu, 9 Sep 2021 at 9:01 am, Daniel P wrote:=C2=A0 Dennis, >>I don't understand your comment. In your cited comment, you comment on >>the binary operators '=3D=3D' vs '=3D=3D=3D' in JS, and express a prefere= nce for >>the latter. But that's a separate issue from "supporting truthiness", >>which is about evaluating a _single_ value as a boolean. =20 ------=_Part_1270055_249806851.1631146886720 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It's converting an arbitrary value to a boolean.  This isn't trivial i= n strongly-types languages like c# (and other .net languages).

Greg

On Thu, 9 Sep 2021 at 11= :13 am, Daniel P
<danielaparker@gmail.com> wrote:
Greg Dennis <gregsdennis@yaho= o.com> wrote:
>

>It's all the same in strong languages.  Casting of any kind = is difficult.

Casting? What casting? A= nd what is all "the same"?

Determining= whether a single value is truthy or falsey doesn't entail casting or
conversion of any kind. It simply involves noting the value's = type,
and comparing
that against a chec= klist.

Daniel

>  On Thu, 9 Sep 2021 at 9:01 am, Daniel P<danielaparker@gmail.com>
wrote:=   Dennis,

>>I don't unders= tand your comment. In your cited comment, you comment on
= >>the binary operators '=3D=3D' vs '=3D=3D=3D' in JS, and express a p= reference for
>>the latter. But that's a separate i= ssue from "supporting truthiness",
>>which is about= evaluating a _single_ value as a boolean.

------=_Part_1270055_249806851.1631146886720-- From nobody Wed Sep 8 17:48:10 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83AFA3A0C02 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 17:48:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L5Qe2HRaSjGB for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 17:48:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm1-x32b.google.com (mail-wm1-x32b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 02C313A0BFF for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 17:48:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm1-x32b.google.com with SMTP id g74so100319wmg.5 for ; Wed, 08 Sep 2021 17:48:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ghSz1TT05kCz5nRFqxow33Q6SC1e59rcj4IN0eKRO80=; b=MFsTSV9MRqz6wkyODo7RZbTCiniSn0QgcyDyqpc4ymV/5qIJhwYNcIo99vV2lflkyW dzJtGxf/UAQ6iS3LI9jN1V5xG+WDyhrdj52j2zYQaEH6jtgvZVBfttjWhCdqvP31K41H xjvWPSHYfDWIEayGgZ6TTk4lInBBTZleRMAOHeiPxJ/7hwW3dtO6XP5kwZ9XbGEb/kh0 54ju0wZZaFtVc61dlek97NrTYBN+CLvi0trco86Xfn1WtulDdLuEXsXkFJkIe1Mztnhc UqLlwJurMoRPu47Ywv69OVY4vOp3QPB+tkAX6sxVURODb68WiJ7JKubdFwSw5M5joCUn ak6A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ghSz1TT05kCz5nRFqxow33Q6SC1e59rcj4IN0eKRO80=; b=bmmz9rdsUZBpyFtCdMBVvW/bXkn5NZIlewwCxBVM0gz/UPpLh0+u/XxZpWmZfkoKqh EZzOqGuJom0igPd2BnnRQKZASZ61xaO1LBKmbgTAVBarVnQfbUN7GoYwiiA4TLTy0KGw K1Oczikfxgki52qTxhhQlXa8lyq3DGdyJEJ6eWSs6fQo7NQMJKQF4Z0yJ3ptmcGGVabx MdzK+ARpmeAxRFK2+fMzXJ2OczLu2w9Qkpv9KNZ+DXfngCUjzSfMJB8qOL0L0DE3s1RQ /xdvsZuijSzKNdILlk3hMEVuQ1MrTpFyUVl1Sh8GAdXAUP5RmuEbhsQ7gaADYlt0zEPs qRIQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531XdbIcZwbMiqHIlAroCOtTn79GBYE/dAuKMirVXgCADXDjj3ey BZvS6zZ/Ss4epAI3yF7Vy+mPNV0dAXlJyboeNMbamFEpqFw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy1kFW0ZoY5+6JalFtF38FQtB2c5udcZOqGZKi5VYVRjKIDa16RALEeSi1C7xe2RmwKS78gLzwdXpq0/csygmA= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:3584:: with SMTP id c126mr143248wma.121.1631148484496; Wed, 08 Sep 2021 17:48:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <2105266982.2221034.1631130103186@mail.yahoo.com> <1153761015.1270056.1631146886722@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1153761015.1270056.1631146886722@mail.yahoo.com> From: Daniel P Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2021 20:47:51 -0400 Message-ID: To: Greg Dennis Cc: jsonpath@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Jsonpath] truthy and falsy X-BeenThere: jsonpath@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A summary description of the list to be included in the table on this page List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2021 00:48:09 -0000 Well, the ruby/lua test for truthiness is surely trivial: boolean isTruthy(Object object) { if (object == null) return false; if (object instanceof Boolean) return (boolean)object; return true; } And as for the more complicated tests, you have to be able to associate the value with a JSON type anyway - number, string, object, array, true, false, null - whether you're dealing with a JsonElement type, or a Dictionary or List or Decimal or struct Foo or whatever type. If you can make that association, you can perform those tests. Daniel On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 at 8:21 PM Greg Dennis wrote: > > It's converting an arbitrary value to a boolean. This isn't trivial in strongly-types languages like c# (and other .net languages). > > Greg > > On Thu, 9 Sep 2021 at 11:13 am, Daniel P > wrote: > Greg Dennis wrote: > > > > >It's all the same in strong languages. Casting of any kind is difficult. > > Casting? What casting? And what is all "the same"? > > Determining whether a single value is truthy or falsey doesn't entail casting or > conversion of any kind. It simply involves noting the value's type, > and comparing > that against a checklist. > > Daniel > > > On Thu, 9 Sep 2021 at 9:01 am, Daniel P > wrote: Dennis, > > >>I don't understand your comment. In your cited comment, you comment on > >>the binary operators '==' vs '===' in JS, and express a preference for > >>the latter. But that's a separate issue from "supporting truthiness", > >>which is about evaluating a _single_ value as a boolean. > From nobody Wed Sep 8 20:18:38 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AE473A1752 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 20:18:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bMtbW5mDBDwg for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 20:18:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pj1-x1031.google.com (mail-pj1-x1031.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1031]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 168E93A1751 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 20:18:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pj1-x1031.google.com with SMTP id c6so396721pjv.1 for ; Wed, 08 Sep 2021 20:18:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=cTCi/Vp2pkCUbz1yVql6MQfvgrCQPRmTi5KaNiIp1K4=; b=Xd30gS1hOHo7jk8TI4ziqOVAfvvYQE31/vyQmuMmV/mzYvNeWhTHzf+IAqTE6WEdlz wBZimBGeUPokGNelgxFrznL2Q6J6a1+60wFdiXFptiqOw48Nv+q1ffHdtZIt5pNxYi/d U9/jV98Fx7I2CNsX/oOqb+grrycLvW+Fb8HSyr3MhUidh0Dlqmt3nTM5zXBCbeO933ol SaA/RkrRM1+IFvdTc8JoLxhGRRbnsYpQuSA8tN/icXhf0IWz9bCrQL0ILBuupeOI0YrN yuW+BW6UH+YhUxou0uB+UN7XieqqEKVR149xrgxA4VeaPLpwo4pMyO503hL9MZiYkM8l ASWA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=cTCi/Vp2pkCUbz1yVql6MQfvgrCQPRmTi5KaNiIp1K4=; b=KT8LMMJ8YcuFuPU/y49n6NW2DTdLcuHJjASnv9GbbD4vaPDE1QIDFjRur3E5A7YOvR wnbiNHkZcQJsQXX0RBVGd830jTJs58jfQ10u4pEYY5Fbqqs3YWQm1V8XA6VCvEz8wQux ksjYUaZhjRMftTixz1Rtnm5Gl2jgqVsZuvsH8ebVFgbYed2zNO/UbhNd2EJZlGUBRqdT z0Y7WAlKDAJstd/Nf/jzCu0/H8SBc8L+rEs8VFE+GXm/T9VkD21Fi+fzx+ujDWGTNW3H eUo2kXF9ftx1vUNnboigD0pu4p9UG3CG9hfs7J+sLJMw2nuxGmb3ZyOEp5Lfd7wxpPN0 g8fA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53141JbJlxwsL/PXb6hnRK82AqZAMAhUIdj3WcxvVHZYGBXah4S+ K867MhuMeV4QUOovh5JNPhz2iTcV10uArcpg3PM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzar8Q3nX1/FIuaUbw2nEXouRV5bNN9xcE4ZwzLC8jLH5uutwopjQUCAOa4did8ryL/fu5STmzi5twG3789ZSg= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:f703:b029:12c:982:c9ae with SMTP id h3-20020a170902f703b029012c0982c9aemr895900plo.20.1631157510539; Wed, 08 Sep 2021 20:18:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Glyn Normington Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2021 04:18:19 +0100 Message-ID: To: Carsten Bormann Cc: Daniel P , jsonpath@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000fd0b1105cb877317" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Jsonpath] truthy and falsy X-BeenThere: jsonpath@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A summary description of the list to be included in the table on this page List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2021 03:18:37 -0000 --000000000000fd0b1105cb877317 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, 8 Sept 2021 at 19:16, Carsten Bormann wrote: > On 2021-09-08, at 19:54, Daniel P wrote: > > > > Perhaps this may be helpful? > > > > > https://craftinginterpreters.com/evaluating-expressions.html#truthiness-a= nd-falsiness > > As this text states, the concept of falsy is of interest only if there ar= e > implicit conversions to Boolean. > > What are the places where we want to have those implicit conversions? > Good question. Expressions like @.foo and $.foo test for the presence of the key foo in an object (and are false for non-objects), so that leaves array accesses (e.g. @[0]) and values such as @, $, and JSON literals such as numbers, strings, booleans, and null. There is no consensus for @ ( https://cburgmer.github.io/json-path-comparison/results/filter_expression_w= ith_current_object.html), booleans ( https://cburgmer.github.io/json-path-comparison/results/filter_expression_w= ith_value_true.html, https://cburgmer.github.io/json-path-comparison/results/filter_expression_w= ith_value_false.html), or null ( https://cburgmer.github.io/json-path-comparison/results/filter_expression_w= ith_value_null.html). Interestingly, the comparison project doesn't yet conceive of implicit conversions for other JSON literals, array accesses, or $. I personally don't see a great deal of value in providing implicit conversions, but maybe that's because of my preference for strongly typed languages. I'd just as soon make these syntax errors. Does anyone *want* implicit conversions? (I don't think strong or weak typing in the implementation language has any relevance to whether we support implicit conversions. If we define implicit conversions in the spec, they can be supported equally well in both strongly and weakly typed languages.) > > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > > -- > Jsonpath mailing list > Jsonpath@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonpath > --000000000000fd0b1105cb877317 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, 8 Sept 2021 at 19:16, Carsten Bor= mann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
On 2021-09-08, at 19:54, Daniel P <danielaparker@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Perhaps this may be helpful?
>
> https://cr= aftinginterpreters.com/evaluating-expressions.html#truthiness-and-falsiness=

As this text states, the concept of falsy is of interest only if there are = implicit conversions to Boolean.

What are the places where we want to have those implicit conversions?

Good question. Expressions like @.foo and $.= foo test for the presence of the key foo in an object (and are false for no= n-objects), so that leaves array accesses (e.g.=C2=A0@[0]) and values such = as=C2=A0@, $, and JSON literals such as numbers, strings, booleans, and nul= l.


I personally don't see a great deal of va= lue in providing implicit conversions, but maybe that's because of my p= reference for strongly typed languages. I'd just as soon make these syn= tax errors. Does anyone *want* implicit conversions?

(I don't think strong or weak typing in the implementation langu= age has any relevance to whether we support implicit conversions. If we def= ine implicit conversions in the spec, they can be supported equally well in= both strongly and weakly typed languages.)
=C2=A0

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten

--
Jsonpath mailing list
Jsonpath@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonpath
--000000000000fd0b1105cb877317-- From nobody Wed Sep 8 22:45:44 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 286E83A1C3A for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 22:45:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OR_XLQo38Y_M for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 22:45:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 275F33A1C16 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 22:45:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p548dcf6e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.207.110]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4H4nzG31fjz2xNc; Thu, 9 Sep 2021 07:45:30 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2021 07:45:30 +0200 Cc: jsonpath@ietf.org, Daniel P X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 652859129.923915-363c0c9bb3f32bedfb02487c6a114470 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: Glyn Normington X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Jsonpath] truthy and falsy X-BeenThere: jsonpath@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A summary description of the list to be included in the table on this page List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2021 05:45:40 -0000 On 2021-09-09, at 05:18, Glyn Normington = wrote: >=20 > Expressions like @.foo and $.foo test for the presence of the key foo = in an object (and are false for non-objects), These expressions really return nodelists. We could define an implicit conversion of nodelists to a Boolean value = (empty nodelist =3D> false, all other nodelists =3D> true). > so that leaves array accesses (e.g. @[0]) and values such as @, $, and = JSON literals such as numbers, strings, booleans, and null. I don=E2=80=99t see a difference between $.foo and $[0]. Why would I write a literal in a random type to have that implicitly = converted to Boolean? So maybe we can focus on the implicit conversion needed for using = nodelists in a Boolean context. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Wed Sep 8 23:32:21 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30F6E3A1DE8 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 23:32:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yahoo.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xQUr1--Zmk0i for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 23:32:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sonic302-1.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com (sonic302-1.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com [74.6.135.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 71BEE3A1DE5 for ; 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Thu, 9 Sep 2021 06:32:12 +0000 Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2021 06:32:02 +0000 (UTC) From: Greg Dennis Reply-To: Greg Dennis To: cabo@tzi.org, Glyn Normington Cc: jsonpath@ietf.org, Daniel P Message-ID: <1478480298.2315932.1631169122658@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2315931_472785104.1631169122657" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.18924 YahooMailAndroidMobile Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Jsonpath] truthy and falsy X-BeenThere: jsonpath@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A summary description of the list to be included in the table on this page List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2021 06:32:19 -0000 ------=_Part_2315931_472785104.1631169122657 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think you're right here, Carsten.=C2=A0 In light of this, were going to n= eed conversions from node lists to various types in order to support things= like $.foo =3D=3D 2. Here we're expecting $.foo to return a node list with a single value, and t= hat value is 2. If we accept that we can use any JSON value as a constant, then we could ha= ve things like $.foo =3D=3D [1, 'two'].=C2=A0 This raises an interesting sc= enario in which we can take this to mean either a node list with a single v= alue of an array, or a node list with two items, 1 and 'two'.=C2=A0 Both co= uld be considered valid, I expect.=C2=A0 Do we need some sort of operator t= o distinguish these cases?=C2=A0 Maybe something like $.foo =3D=3D <1, 'two= '> to mean a node list (the latter case)? In any case it looks like we need implicit conversions at some level.=C2=A0= It's not impossible, just a bit cumbersome in some languages. Greg =20 =20 On Thu, 9 Sep 2021 at 5:45 pm, Carsten Bormann wrote: On = 2021-09-09, at 05:18, Glyn Normington wrot= e: >=20 > Expressions like @.foo and $.foo test for the presence of the key foo in = an object (and are false for non-objects), These expressions really return nodelists. We could define an implicit conversion of nodelists to a Boolean value (emp= ty nodelist =3D> false, all other nodelists =3D> true). > so that leaves array accesses (e.g. @[0]) and values such as @, $, and JS= ON literals such as numbers, strings, booleans, and null. I don=E2=80=99t see a difference between $.foo and $[0]. Why would I write a literal in a random type to have that implicitly conver= ted to Boolean? So maybe we can focus on the implicit conversion needed for using nodelists= in a Boolean context. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten --=20 Jsonpath mailing list Jsonpath@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonpath =20 ------=_Part_2315931_472785104.1631169122657 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think you're right here, Carsten.  In light of this, were going to n= eed conversions from node lists to various types in order to support things= like $.foo =3D=3D 2.
<= br>
Here we're ex= pecting $.foo to return a node list with a single value, and that value is = 2.

If we accept that we can u= se any JSON value as a constant, then we could have things like $.foo =3D= =3D [1, 'two'].  This raises an interesting scenario in which we can t= ake this to mean either a node list with a single value of an array, or a n= ode list with two items, 1 and 'two'.  Both could be considered valid,= I expect.  Do we need some sort of operator to distinguish these case= s?  Maybe something like $.foo =3D=3D <1, 'two'> to mean a node = list (the latter case)?

In an= y case it looks like we need implicit conversions at some level.  It's= not impossible, just a bit cumbersome in some languages.

Greg

On Thu, 9 Sep 2021 at 5= :45 pm, Carsten Bormann
<cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
=
On 2021-09-09, at 05:18, Glyn Normington <glyn.normington.work@gmail.com> wrote:>
> Expressions like @.foo and $.f= oo test for the presence of the key foo in an object (and are false for non= -objects),

These expressions really re= turn nodelists.
We could define an implicit conversion of= nodelists to a Boolean value (empty nodelist =3D> false, all other node= lists =3D> true).

> so that leav= es array accesses (e.g. @[0]) and values such as @, $, and JSON literals su= ch as numbers, strings, booleans, and null.

I don=E2=80=99t see a difference between $.foo and $[0].

Why would I write a literal in a random type to ha= ve that implicitly converted to Boolean?

So maybe we can focus on the implicit conversion needed for using nodeli= sts in a Boolean context.

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten

--
Jsonpath mailing list
Jsonpath@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonpath
=
------=_Part_2315931_472785104.1631169122657-- From nobody Wed Sep 8 23:43:46 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C10C93A1E44 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 23:43:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4YJR8yDhc1gw for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 23:43:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 876EE3A1E42 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 23:43:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p548dcf6e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.207.110]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4H4qGH5vbtz2xNr; Thu, 9 Sep 2021 08:43:35 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <1478480298.2315932.1631169122658@mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2021 08:43:35 +0200 Cc: Glyn Normington , jsonpath@ietf.org, Daniel P X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 652862615.43437-243aec1a112d60b2334cbd951a970a20 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <53E0C4BB-F9AF-41AE-9896-A728E30A94E1@tzi.org> References: <1478480298.2315932.1631169122658@mail.yahoo.com> To: Greg Dennis X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Jsonpath] truthy and falsy X-BeenThere: jsonpath@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A summary description of the list to be included in the table on this page List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2021 06:43:43 -0000 On 2021-09-09, at 08:32, Greg Dennis wrote: >=20 > I think you're right here, Carsten. In light of this, were going to = need conversions from node lists to various types in order to support = things like $.foo =3D=3D 2. >=20 > Here we're expecting $.foo to return a node list with a single value, = and that value is 2. As you note below, that is dangerous. (Of course, if that reflects current practice, we=E2=80=99ll need to = make it work.) > If we accept that we can use any JSON value as a constant, then we = could have things like $.foo =3D=3D [1, 'two']. This raises an = interesting scenario in which we can take this to mean either a node = list with a single value of an array, or a node list with two items, 1 = and 'two'. =20 I don=E2=80=99t think we want to implicitly convert a nodelist to an = array of the value of the nodes. Is that something that current practice suggests? > Both could be considered valid, I expect. Do we need some sort of = operator to distinguish these cases? Maybe something like $.foo =3D=3D = <1, 'two'> to mean a node list (the latter case)? That would be one syntax. We also might want to have operators for cases like =E2=80=9Ccontains=E2=80= =9D. Again, guided by current practice. > In any case it looks like we need implicit conversions at some level. = It's not impossible, just a bit cumbersome in some languages. The conversion could be innate in the type =E2=80=9Cnodelist=E2=80=9D, = or it could be a property of operators like =E2=80=9C=3D=3D=E2=80=9C. = I=E2=80=99d rather see operators that are very specific as to what they = do, but maybe =E2=80=9C=3D=3D=E2=80=9C (and friends) are the places to = make this conversion. So you never compare a nodelist, you always = invoke a conversion into JSON values. A nodelist that doesn=E2=80=99t = support that conversion =E2=80=9Cfails=E2=80=9D the comparison = expression. Just thinking out loud; this needs to be driven by examples. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Thu Sep 9 01:07:29 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3A3A3A2119 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2021 01:07:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZLv6tFPF_xGD for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2021 01:07:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.130]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EA62D3A2116 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2021 01:07:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.20] ([88.130.51.57]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue011 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MFsER-1mAHmJ2edz-00HMMg for ; Thu, 09 Sep 2021 10:07:20 +0200 To: jsonpath@ietf.org References: <1478480298.2315932.1631169122658@mail.yahoo.com> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Stefan_G=c3=b6ssner?= Message-ID: Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2021 10:07:19 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1478480298.2315932.1631169122658@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------7F5187680D9C5667E9E5DB77" X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:XOPtjQVG/WCxlushZ41y5KFz5fgVpoVJkRyy8Mie9hvHnnd54Ww nG1ZLz28Cvtgbe2d4rZGEStjekGGy8soSP2l87zN/4KOOJke2wEIjw+jCiJBbM3UywFO3Fz x6MpUMVPx95FwRJIYMuZIvLaF0ayoEt4Fl5Xgq7fqX6sQuT+kjiMps2FE07TkDFyG9uu/IU aTDjP6HrQ3OUnOEBzpq/g== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:eQJZI2iZB0s=:SgJ7gYW9uq+Bqad16UTRbg DagCPyyYHJdMzd7LNXO01ob9NEjBYinC3OydYWLSwOkfPFHjvzWyFxEdsvNLPhFXbyYwwQW2N 262zhUENcgkptxLKBx2ASt3JZ9GA+fmwmfNTUWlAI0M4zFXMtXxWlq+JBYl+tk/nz2x9uywbC LtwUJKOZpbyIw+Xw6eWKok5Qkx6QkDqSEHNKodgVgX9IK8E6muA/dHtQoS7P844yri1MSIXv0 VZexdewdiHQhQ4UVg6qHuQ4vzNef2Y/d3W/Zp59q6h3S77VZa9d05jYaq4JnQ+l03/vaeGg5t LCp2LuM10zWOp9CpZhYpaZuT2JAloublP0//h4WbswIg/9gRMS9Io5jp5bF1M2YrrN3qwZGNu C1SSMHFuL4zk6CEIoL/aRXL/RqFwDDIQaUPIGsnkNlkzdKdXQEHRKL8+mawjcxYS8D5MIckKn 0fU/D4u1RrVSqG1KD67Cv0UDWHnQLNkpquKtLnReFMzkn/MSQGXaoTPihN4XKojfmIJS2ePPl mBtykyrDSjIn4kjuD9nWe0/aM8t8ATg4MLNYkyW+McjTsSaHIgXcXwfazE2kjugActKRvKbAR 7ObkPXHCSiKVBRG56KYwkaqeFv43aiU8O9UplZl2i3CiH7kDEfwk1c52DmfZTZI0FVqsdNMIR 2ZyThthkyRBSECidzv9Jx1xsXyFYn9kftKPTccqDM1aVMN//cnF1LOmQXUErF3WYgTqE4Un+n gERH9HZZK2GvAasfm+BOD7LhAV/YZYB9aSRJpw== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Jsonpath] truthy and falsy X-BeenThere: jsonpath@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A summary description of the list to be included in the table on this page List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2021 08:07:28 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------7F5187680D9C5667E9E5DB77 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Truthy / falsy defined for JavaScript is described here. https://masteringjs.io/tutorials/fundamentals/truthy (Greg) > If we accept that we can use any JSON value as a constant, then we > could have things like $.foo == [1, 'two'].  This raises an > interesting scenario in which we can take this to mean either a node > list with a single value of an array, or a node list with two items, 1 > and 'two'.  Both could be considered valid, I expect.  Do we need some > sort of operator to distinguish these cases?  Maybe something like > $.foo == <1, 'two'> to mean a node list (the latter case)? > We voted for comparisons of scalar values only, i.e. nodelists containing a single node while taking its value. So current draft reads (at least for now): > Comparisons are restricted to primitive values (such as number, string, |true|, |false|, |null|). Comparisons with complex values will fail, i.e. no selection occurs. > Containment tests work with arrays and objects. We might want to extend containment tests to also work with nodelists. --------------7F5187680D9C5667E9E5DB77 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Truthy / falsy defined for JavaScript is described here.

https://masteringjs.io/tutorials/fundamentals/truthy

(Greg)
If we accept that we can use any JSON value as a constant, then we could have things like $.foo == [1, 'two'].  This raises an interesting scenario in which we can take this to mean either a node list with a single value of an array, or a node list with two items, 1 and 'two'.  Both could be considered valid, I expect.  Do we need some sort of operator to distinguish these cases?  Maybe something like $.foo == <1, 'two'> to mean a node list (the latter case)?


We voted for comparisons of scalar values only, i.e. nodelists containing a single node while taking its value.

So current draft reads (at least for now):

> Comparisons are restricted to primitive values (such as number, string, true, false, null). Comparisons with complex values will fail, i.e. no selection occurs.

> Containment tests work with arrays and objects.

We might want to extend containment tests to also work with nodelists.

--------------7F5187680D9C5667E9E5DB77-- From nobody Thu Sep 9 06:40:55 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 565513A1175 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2021 06:40:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TXng2g_qBzCA for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2021 06:40:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm1-x336.google.com (mail-wm1-x336.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::336]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4E8843A119A for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2021 06:40:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm1-x336.google.com with SMTP id u15-20020a05600c19cf00b002f6445b8f55so1458691wmq.0 for ; Thu, 09 Sep 2021 06:40:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=4e0ssiMdMEi45ZchHsxoztlo8Flp9dunWTyIMGnn040=; b=dsqlRbX6rvZsG+aCOYOKB0xT1SlY5hQh5revFvH0JulXlqzOmshjD9ejMh4lxOwH0N 6GNvQXC1u3v2GWveuxz1RO0PII9S67+R81qLqpPbhnFkIg5JrFmKS2C44tuyAZS7+FCX TBaxzKyA3TzdNDFXuocZ8Ja8xNWWReMpgnupE0NrCA6nBSjrkuCDFOYuuGEK6453dtg0 s/VhImeY2dZFeP8vsdeit4Rbh6VLY0+D2oKmrZ4B77XtYKfhAMXHcSTAnjPCtGgDDnJm GuccH5pzPOZp1lRrBsRTmNQ6mMOb9YsBa7l81GDLm7PdK8j1sl1kCsK0LRz1OqdQGN1Q BS7A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=4e0ssiMdMEi45ZchHsxoztlo8Flp9dunWTyIMGnn040=; b=bdBBQH/v/Q10omzl5MUyPp3hsMP1oEmAGLBG1fRiFo3kXkEoonwUswIdtybP89THJm j7YO6JpH/BX45x9DsUjNsory8leQmn21XNV+eDKDumjVN5uq7NQ8WrHuyyLrtBWZKxUE mxyWKri+oqNvgybNhJN6CHKG6W5sqFyaJzvX9RAUr9RGS2iHiC8H5CZk77WX7xvZ1p6G 3PtnocLo6HP07GcNIM86lFrzDtUA9nd0Wrg61PSy19eob5LJFBOq+qsOJLboD8OFVAbI 85/YQ7IlM0GZmmhoI4ybqBRODbrhXCFUWIoVjQfchB10lp293S1CTKB5phabdHcsmh3X UmeA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531vcV/xFrnnSv4IAjzMcp52gt/rhuKKiSAgnUjfi7dFV1o+33rG YqIWUD/1EdUrSc8cicSVwW+APmEoMSs73ccsSU4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw/UdFAI/RRyj1itVmCg682pS09SxsnsfGlnJqM4Pm0m4JF43/htuJ1w8WdMdf9qIyE2JG9sZqHx2sYq4yMWxE= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:3584:: with SMTP id c126mr3053358wma.121.1631194841453; Thu, 09 Sep 2021 06:40:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Daniel P Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2021 09:40:30 -0400 Message-ID: To: Carsten Bormann Cc: Glyn Normington , jsonpath@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Jsonpath] truthy and falsy X-BeenThere: jsonpath@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A summary description of the list to be included in the table on this page List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2021 13:40:50 -0000 On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 1:45 AM Carsten Bormann wrote: > > On 2021-09-09, at 05:18, Glyn Normington wrote: > > > > Expressions like @.foo and $.foo test for the presence of the key foo in an object (and are false for non-objects), > > These expressions really return nodelists. Perhaps in the WG's specification. But specifically regarding @.foo, Goessner JavaScript does not return "nodelists", nor do any of the implementations that use JavaScript, PHP or Python as a scripting language. But also neither does the most widely used of the implementations that specify expressions, Jayway JsonPath, which is rigged into enterprise Java API's. Together, just these would account for the majority of implementations in actual use, I would suggest the vast majority. For the JavaScript implementations, @ corresponds to a Javascript variable, and @.foo corresponds to a key lookup in a Javascript object, if that fails, it returns undefined, otherwise, it returns a single value. Analogous observations can be made about other implementations using dynamically typed languages for expression evaluation. For Jayway JsonPath, @.foo is treated as a JSONPath expression and is evaluated to a single value following these rules: - JsonPath selectors that can return multiple results (recursive descent, unions, slices, wildcards, paths with expressions) always return a JSON array, which can contain zero, one or many values. - JsonPath selectors that can only return a single value (identifiers, indexes), return a single value. The result is a JSONPath expression evaluated to a single value. This is obviously not equivalent to returning a "nodelist" and selecting the 0th element (if it exists). These observations suggest that it might be helpful to include a note in the draft that clarifies the purpose of the WG. Is it to standardize existing behaviour? What would that mean when the extant implementations exhibit different behaviour, and because they are entrenched in legacy API's, they cannot change? Or is it to invent something new, inspired by the original, picking and choosing from popular implementations as the WG sees fit? If something new, should it have a different name? Best regards, Daniel From nobody Thu Sep 9 11:38:02 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F8673A0BEB for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2021 11:38:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rB3HbPmXY6eq for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2021 11:37:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pj1-x1032.google.com (mail-pj1-x1032.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1032]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0FFF73A0BE6 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2021 11:37:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pj1-x1032.google.com with SMTP id m21-20020a17090a859500b00197688449c4so2148310pjn.0 for ; Thu, 09 Sep 2021 11:37:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=+Jv2DMvQd07jB3Kxk5XySKxvhFbnQVUmw4qvuNVOCcQ=; b=WyI+ONMrG8+8gpss2nzPi7STB6T2R+JbbNx8gb8KzKpnKHLQoCc9VJPOXWXLyLfD71 sQYX6+cwJ0MFI0aMBJcLl9zJdDYIeK8Nj1PwRylUtuq4ItK502JCF0cLpeA/KLJvehjs xZcrR4GlS8+xW5eK1h0XJKv16787hXArsk+iNzGinjBMDzZQbuPzA3nMaDm3TzUwuP5h EUDWRGAMwHJ8jUFufacBK1nePiXo9bUHJw1aHedlLAiBMiR3RWIf6IrHMS4UJB588Cmh tOJ+qDpIg3L9i5pe8dYT5UUBOh38HERW2ALkXkYIvfu7L1FMev/0ce+tCxUsoyJE4EMl XMIQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=+Jv2DMvQd07jB3Kxk5XySKxvhFbnQVUmw4qvuNVOCcQ=; b=WAJAqaGQP6Ec3rCFacWulwexu2VM5VfCJQuHKHLTMSxDg/WjPONiwNADDpnyGpJWMz PbCXpmO5ohooCC+dq7OlElXQFbRpeNsHvgrM80uYjThd/YHki9vnJN0qPvgolLPc0K8O vQemqNnFCNEquBiX84xyePGOsdWcg58SkeNl9rgOHD+HNhYg7HZW7KP7w12WSNJ/E7ks 7BlPKhn1SaH5NxgbTe2piAEP4r/cp9yVtddslGWPoSRyR84QnHgtCy4YqPXOtucCBOxx tqHjkxPeHaBD0qfT3CZ+911llJGby7AhxmELFajB/aWkA68476OJPTq57Ix4wRhVgesb QIqQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530q7eLTh6HvaFA/Bn2x8U1OFTwW9TOaJy+8dragTo5PcBapejV4 dLnSSwbJRcWANTi3jlz1gUYOGB14VZ934o8e8RneEZKYgkU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzgdGKDtyEzhv0+1kqAg3ZIwtrBdYhXvNWjdnI5Ba2fu2IYoGZ2iN1heJIAS1S3Kb5s1GlPC6ZCHaa6Y6EIZ24= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:830c:b0:13a:7685:cfcd with SMTP id bd12-20020a170902830c00b0013a7685cfcdmr3284156plb.29.1631212674939; Thu, 09 Sep 2021 11:37:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Glyn Normington Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2021 19:37:44 +0100 Message-ID: To: Daniel P Cc: Carsten Bormann , jsonpath@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Jsonpath] truthy and falsy X-BeenThere: jsonpath@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A summary description of the list to be included in the table on this page List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2021 18:38:01 -0000 On Thu, 9 Sept 2021 at 14:40, Daniel P wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 1:45 AM Carsten Bormann wrote: > > > > On 2021-09-09, at 05:18, Glyn Normington wrote: > > > > > > Expressions like @.foo and $.foo test for the presence of the key foo in an object (and are false for non-objects), > > > > These expressions really return nodelists. > > Perhaps in the WG's specification. But specifically regarding @.foo, > Goessner JavaScript does not return "nodelists", nor do any of the > implementations that use JavaScript, PHP or Python as a scripting > language. But also neither does the most widely used of the > implementations that specify expressions, Jayway JsonPath, which is > rigged into enterprise Java API's. Together, just these would account > for the majority of implementations in actual use, I would suggest the > vast majority. > > For the JavaScript implementations, @ corresponds to a Javascript > variable, and @.foo corresponds to a key lookup in a Javascript > object, if that fails, it returns undefined, otherwise, it returns a > single value. Analogous observations can be made about other > implementations using dynamically typed languages for expression > evaluation. > > For Jayway JsonPath, @.foo is treated as a JSONPath expression and is > evaluated to a single value following these rules: > > - JsonPath selectors that can return multiple results (recursive > descent, unions, slices, wildcards, paths with expressions) always > return a JSON array, which can contain zero, one or many values. > - JsonPath selectors that can only return a single value (identifiers, > indexes), return a single value. > > The result is a JSONPath expression evaluated to a single value. This > is obviously not equivalent to returning a "nodelist" and selecting > the 0th element (if it exists). > > These observations suggest that it might be helpful to include a note > in the draft that clarifies the purpose of the WG. Is it to > standardize existing behaviour? Yes. Please see our charter: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/jsonpath/about/ > What would that mean when the extant > implementations exhibit different behaviour, and because they are > entrenched in legacy API's, they cannot change? The charter says: "Where there are differences, the working group will analyze those differences and make choices that rough consensus considers technically best, with an aim toward minimizing disruption among the different JSONPath implementations." So we don't have to preserve all existing behaviour. It will be up to each implementation whether or not to migrate to the eventual standard. > Or is it to invent > something new, inspired by the original, picking and choosing from > popular implementations as the WG sees fit? If something new, should > it have a different name? I doubt we want to reinvent JMESPath. > > Best regards, > Daniel From nobody Thu Sep 9 22:47:21 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80E833A1AFD for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2021 22:47:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yahoo.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tAtkODeJsyvm for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2021 22:47:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sonic311-15.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com (sonic311-15.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com [74.6.131.125]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 73F853A1AFC for ; 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Fri, 10 Sep 2021 05:47:10 +0000 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2021 05:47:05 +0000 (UTC) From: Greg Dennis To: Daniel P , Glyn Normington Cc: "jsonpath@ietf.org" , Carsten Bormann Message-ID: <1306384548.2537842.1631252825313@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2537841_567094872.1631252825311" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.18924 YMailNorrin Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Jsonpath] truthy and falsy X-BeenThere: jsonpath@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A summary description of the list to be included in the table on this page List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2021 05:47:19 -0000 ------=_Part_2537841_567094872.1631252825311 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've opened issue 119 (https://github.com/ietf-wg-jsonpath/draft-ietf-json= path-base/issues/119) to continue this discussion.=C2=A0 I think it's easie= r to read along in an issue than trying to browse an email chain. Greg On Friday, September 10, 2021, 06:38:07 AM GMT+12, Glyn Normington wrote: =20 =20 On Thu, 9 Sept 2021 at 14:40, Daniel P wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 1:45 AM Carsten Bormann wrote: > > > > On 2021-09-09, at 05:18, Glyn Normington wrote: > > > > > > Expressions like @.foo and $.foo test for the presence of the key foo= in an object (and are false for non-objects), > > > > These expressions really return nodelists. > > Perhaps in the WG's specification. But specifically regarding @.foo, > Goessner JavaScript does not return "nodelists", nor do any of the > implementations that use JavaScript, PHP or Python as a scripting > language. But also neither does the most widely used of the > implementations that specify expressions, Jayway JsonPath, which is > rigged into enterprise Java API's. Together, just these would account > for the majority of implementations in actual use, I would suggest the > vast majority. > > For the JavaScript implementations, @ corresponds to a Javascript > variable, and @.foo corresponds to a key lookup in a Javascript > object, if that fails, it returns undefined, otherwise, it returns a > single value. Analogous observations can be made about other > implementations using dynamically typed languages for expression > evaluation. > > For Jayway JsonPath, @.foo is treated as a JSONPath expression and is > evaluated to a single value following these rules: > > - JsonPath selectors that can return multiple results (recursive > descent, unions, slices, wildcards, paths with expressions) always > return a JSON array, which can contain zero, one or many values. > - JsonPath selectors that can only return a single value (identifiers, > indexes), return a single value. > > The result is a JSONPath expression evaluated to a single value. This > is obviously not equivalent to returning a "nodelist" and selecting > the 0th element (if it exists). > > These observations suggest that it might be helpful to include a note > in the draft that clarifies the purpose of the WG. Is it to > standardize existing behaviour? Yes. Please see our charter:=C2=A0 https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/jsonpath= /about/ > What would that mean when the extant > implementations exhibit different behaviour, and because they are > entrenched in legacy API's, they cannot change? The charter says: "Where there are differences, the working group will analyze those differences and make choices that rough consensus considers technically best, with an aim toward minimizing disruption among the different JSONPath implementations." So we don't have to preserve all existing behaviour. It will be up to each implementation whether or not to migrate to the eventual standard. > Or is it to invent > something new, inspired by the original, picking and choosing from > popular implementations as the WG sees fit? If something new, should > it have a different name? I doubt we want to reinvent JMESPath. > > Best regards, > Daniel --=20 Jsonpath mailing list Jsonpath@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonpath =20 ------=_Part_2537841_567094872.1631252825311 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I've opened issue 119 (https://github.com/ietf-wg-jsonpath/= draft-ietf-jsonpath-base/issues/119) to continue this discussion. = I think it's easier to read along in an issue than trying to browse an ema= il chain.

Greg

=20
=20
On Friday, September 10, 2021, 06:38:07 AM GMT+12, Glyn= Normington <glyn.normington.work@gmail.com> wrote:


On Thu, 9 Sept 2021 at 14:40, Daniel = P <danielaparker@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 1:45 AM Carsten Bo= rmann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
> >> > On 2021-09-09, at 05:18, Glyn Normington <glyn.normington.work@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Expressions like = @.foo and $.foo test for the presence of the key foo in an object (and are = false for non-objects),
> >
> = > These expressions really return nodelists.
>
> Perhaps in the WG's specification. But specifically rega= rding @.foo,
> Goessner JavaScript does not return "no= delists", nor do any of the
> implementations that use= JavaScript, PHP or Python as a scripting
> language. = But also neither does the most widely used of the
> im= plementations that specify expressions, Jayway JsonPath, which is
> rigged into enterprise Java API's. Together, just these woul= d account
> for the majority of implementations in act= ual use, I would suggest the
> vast majority.
>
> For the JavaScript implementations, @= corresponds to a Javascript
> variable, and @.foo cor= responds to a key lookup in a Javascript
> object, if = that fails, it returns undefined, otherwise, it returns a
> single value. Analogous observations can be made about other
> implementations using dynamically typed languages for expres= sion
> evaluation.
>
> For Jayway JsonPath, @.foo is treated as a JSONPath expression a= nd is
> evaluated to a single value following these ru= les:
>
> - JsonPath selectors tha= t can return multiple results (recursive
> descent, un= ions, slices, wildcards, paths with expressions) always
&= gt; return a JSON array, which can contain zero, one or many values.
> - JsonPath selectors that can only return a single value (= identifiers,
> indexes), return a single value.
>
> The result is a JSONPath expression= evaluated to a single value. This
> is obviously not = equivalent to returning a "nodelist" and selecting
> t= he 0th element (if it exists).
>
>= ; These observations suggest that it might be helpful to include a note
> in the draft that clarifies the purpose of the WG. Is i= t to
> standardize existing behaviour?

Yes. Please see our charter:  https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/jsonpath/about/

> What would that mean when the extant> implementations exhibit different behaviour, and becau= se they are
> entrenched in legacy API's, they cannot = change?

The charter says:

"Where there are
differences, th= e working group will analyze those differences and
make c= hoices that rough consensus considers technically best, with
an aim toward minimizing disruption among the different JSONPath
implementations."

So we do= n't have to preserve all existing behaviour. It will be up to
each implementation whether or not to migrate to the eventual
standard.

> Or is it to i= nvent
> something new, inspired by the original, picki= ng and choosing from
> popular implementations as the = WG sees fit? If something new, should
> it have a diff= erent name?

I doubt we want to reinven= t JMESPath.


>
> Best= regards,
> Daniel

--
Jsonpath mailing list
Jsonpath@ietf.org
= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonpath
=
------=_Part_2537841_567094872.1631252825311-- From nobody Thu Sep 9 23:43:40 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 613673A1CC9 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2021 23:43:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6bg2iYHWmIIo for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2021 23:43:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:32::15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 220243A1CC4 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 2021 23:43:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (p548dcf6e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.207.110]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4H5RCj2S57z2xN9; Fri, 10 Sep 2021 08:43:29 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2021 08:43:28 +0200 Cc: Glyn Normington , jsonpath@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <80BA4238-F40C-4DD4-93E3-8B5FB7AA52C7@tzi.org> References: To: Daniel P X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Jsonpath] truthy and falsy X-BeenThere: jsonpath@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A summary description of the list to be included in the table on this page List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2021 06:43:38 -0000 On 9. Sep 2021, at 15:40, Daniel P wrote: >=20 > standardize existing behaviour Of course! But there is a difference between behavior and the model used to = describe that behavior. The nodelist is an abstraction that can be used to properly describe = that existing behavior (or also to clean it up, if that is desired). Of course we can make a difference between, say, $..foo being used as a = selector in a JSONpath query expression itself and using the same in the = expression language, say, in a filter expression or an index expression. > For the JavaScript implementations, @ corresponds to a Javascript > variable, and @.foo corresponds to a key lookup in a Javascript > object, if that fails, it returns undefined, otherwise, The concept of =E2=80=9Cundefined=E2=80=9D is foreign to JSON. I think it is almost inevitable that, whatever we do, expression = constructs in the JSONPath expression language will have ranges and = domains that include values like that (i.e., that are not JSON values). Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Fri Sep 10 03:38:26 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAF143A1001 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2021 03:38:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.895 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.895 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NgnhFl8S2F81 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2021 03:38:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E40C13A0FF7 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2021 03:38:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.20] ([87.123.195.239]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue009 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1M9Wqa-1mLK0J1kMG-005dOc; Fri, 10 Sep 2021 12:38:07 +0200 To: Daniel P , Carsten Bormann Cc: jsonpath@ietf.org, Glyn Normington References: From: =?UTF-8?Q?Stefan_G=c3=b6ssner?= Message-ID: <2999f0f8-5773-4d70-5b27-67f51862d248@goessner.net> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2021 12:38:05 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------5BA630E8C0B70E45584D4587" X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:Vgnd9jZXWBXOBITGnRa1u24Az253quOabSCp4/78aCLWbe7RJNJ ma1u0nDnt7wG0udyr84SMqgT/JCnSDkDT8fKvBxS2hY5G2LfZMuEMck8+OIU/2SwKZiBhro RN5mHZZQze637bZ5HikrrS10JJ3nkxa3ZDTt8VBLYwszXl1/RNshePzLm3x3p6tec5Mvm0b J8MqRtfp9zvWxd7tUCp/w== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:HzJk704Ie6w=:4T4UDCopCfJUkG3lQDKbbR asJ7wdy69/5LhQqh3Sq26R1b4aZWDGXUcYSWrxt1ar6B6jJygBqT9X77BJKjBqcFKvnrLD30i FuBPiAH4mHNv2zPHXrgeMj4rcSvV5r+MNc60hjt/f7Mwyujss966N6o95cq8F9Mbkp4A9cKvJ ndLMtt86poNEp6V9r7E2JlP16nBNYeugRkcreeZUwxfszKDBYAfM9BAMXeG4kB+9FgPke0Pab aHI4IvUjH/XjwpSVxua84bmtjP/8+txSxLuD/Xkrni08wLcOV4vsr8WeVYLa2CBPuiyfKUgH7 QyIPEjNQ6eaRgr0Rxwiq0XR1WWoy/CUudZPcAw1HcxP5ber18MTvtgrIgoj0yL7pkuVwfI0Y7 dDr0RAk27QTEPCcHxHdocL/ryuE/+FCFPh6tBHvbdWNEEEPE/rVSirmqqm4Gs+vbAfYEZsOSn h+FFqQbMO8GqiatIH9xn7Z35nTY9rM5uTQm5t6AkHvb8WzLx02bSu+Z+VWVpeGbaWxcPrvsSe kbCiBkH66HBC2Rm/qGX911hjbxW6iJJMpr4g9o86SqoxGuthNlEv6YjwhLWm4tyeYaU4Sxfzz pQcXdZEXpVhlabSEWTMvYTpwrDfbno1jUNjJ9grPRdI6tujbKoLDETpVqaexisDG7O3Di9xt3 WddmEZ12z6a9M22XPUg383YiarpRpts4Sefn18sTEwwoAoqrglbyMDqzf760LP3I4vbrrz8ab DzVQCGNOphByM/NlokMTtUvvfWMrJEBihu3SZA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Jsonpath] truthy and falsy X-BeenThere: jsonpath@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A summary description of the list to be included in the table on this page List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2021 10:38:24 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5BA630E8C0B70E45584D4587 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The latest draft is quite clear: > The query is a sequence of zero or more /selectors/, each of which is applied to the result of the previous selector and provides input to the next selector. These results and inputs take the form of a /nodelist/, i.e., a sequence of zero or more nodes. In my mental model a 'nodelist' is simply an abstract form of a sequence of nodes of the tree representation of the query's JSON argument. That abstract form is used by implementations internally and mostly coded via arrays then - which is implementation specific though. I have a very strong opinion about fundamental working of JSONPath by "JSON in - JSON out". Only that way we can apply a JSONPath query to the result of another query ... implying a result array of course. Optionally the result array does not contain values, but normalized pathes of the selected nodes, which is a concrete instance of the abstract resulting nodelist then. I see your post as a hint for us to perhaps concretise the 'nodelist' definition in the spec and check its use throughout the text. -- sg Am 09.09.2021 um 15:40 schrieb Daniel P: > On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 1:45 AM Carsten Bormann wrote: >> On 2021-09-09, at 05:18, Glyn Normington wrote: >>> Expressions like @.foo and $.foo test for the presence of the key foo in an object (and are false for non-objects), >> These expressions really return nodelists. > Perhaps in the WG's specification. But specifically regarding @.foo, > Goessner JavaScript does not return "nodelists", nor do any of the > implementations that use JavaScript, PHP or Python as a scripting > language. But also neither does the most widely used of the > implementations that specify expressions, Jayway JsonPath, which is > rigged into enterprise Java API's. Together, just these would account > for the majority of implementations in actual use, I would suggest the > vast majority. > > For the JavaScript implementations, @ corresponds to a Javascript > variable, and @.foo corresponds to a key lookup in a Javascript > object, if that fails, it returns undefined, otherwise, it returns a > single value. Analogous observations can be made about other > implementations using dynamically typed languages for expression > evaluation. > > For Jayway JsonPath, @.foo is treated as a JSONPath expression and is > evaluated to a single value following these rules: > > - JsonPath selectors that can return multiple results (recursive > descent, unions, slices, wildcards, paths with expressions) always > return a JSON array, which can contain zero, one or many values. > - JsonPath selectors that can only return a single value (identifiers, > indexes), return a single value. > > The result is a JSONPath expression evaluated to a single value. This > is obviously not equivalent to returning a "nodelist" and selecting > the 0th element (if it exists). > > These observations suggest that it might be helpful to include a note > in the draft that clarifies the purpose of the WG. Is it to > standardize existing behaviour? What would that mean when the extant > implementations exhibit different behaviour, and because they are > entrenched in legacy API's, they cannot change? Or is it to invent > something new, inspired by the original, picking and choosing from > popular implementations as the WG sees fit? If something new, should > it have a different name? > > Best regards, > Daniel > --------------5BA630E8C0B70E45584D4587 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The latest draft is quite clear:

> The query is a sequence of zero or more selectors, each of which is applied to the result of the previous selector and provides input to the next selector. These results and inputs take the form of a nodelist, i.e., a sequence of zero or more nodes.

In my mental model a 'nodelist' is simply an abstract form of a sequence of nodes of the tree representation of the query's JSON argument. That abstract form is used by implementations internally and mostly coded via arrays then - which is implementation specific though.

I have a very strong opinion about fundamental working of JSONPath by "JSON in - JSON out". Only that way we can apply a JSONPath query to the result of another query ... implying a result array of course. Optionally the result array does not contain values, but normalized pathes of the selected nodes, which is a concrete instance of the abstract resulting nodelist then.

I see your post as a hint for us to perhaps concretise the 'nodelist' definition in the spec and check its use throughout the text.
--
sg


Am 09.09.2021 um 15:40 schrieb Daniel P:
On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 1:45 AM Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:

On 2021-09-09, at 05:18, Glyn Normington <glyn.normington.work@gmail.com> wrote:

Expressions like @.foo and $.foo test for the presence of the key foo in an object (and are false for non-objects),

These expressions really return nodelists.

Perhaps in the WG's specification. But specifically regarding @.foo,
Goessner JavaScript does not return "nodelists", nor do any of the
implementations that use JavaScript, PHP or Python as a scripting
language. But also neither does the most widely used of the
implementations that specify expressions, Jayway JsonPath, which is
rigged into enterprise Java API's. Together, just these would account
for the majority of implementations in actual use, I would suggest the
vast majority.

For the JavaScript implementations, @ corresponds to a Javascript
variable, and @.foo corresponds to a key lookup in a Javascript
object, if that fails, it returns undefined, otherwise, it returns a
single value. Analogous observations can be made about other
implementations using dynamically typed languages for expression
evaluation.

For Jayway JsonPath, @.foo is treated as a JSONPath expression and is
evaluated to a single value following these rules:

- JsonPath selectors that can return multiple results (recursive
descent, unions, slices, wildcards, paths with expressions) always
return a JSON array, which can contain zero, one or many values.
- JsonPath selectors that can only return a single value (identifiers,
indexes), return a single value.

The result is a JSONPath expression evaluated to a single value. This
is obviously not equivalent to returning a "nodelist" and selecting
the 0th element (if it exists).

These observations suggest that it might be helpful to include a note
in the draft that clarifies the purpose of the WG. Is it to
standardize existing behaviour? What would that mean when the extant
implementations exhibit different behaviour, and because they are
entrenched in legacy API's, they cannot change? Or is it to invent
something new, inspired by the original, picking and choosing from
popular implementations as the WG sees fit? If something new, should
it have a different name?

Best regards,
Daniel

--------------5BA630E8C0B70E45584D4587-- From nobody Fri Sep 10 05:25:07 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB8833A0C6F for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2021 05:25:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UKDvE53Lrbdg for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2021 05:24:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.130]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C099B3A0CA6 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2021 05:24:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.20] ([87.123.195.239]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue012 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MtPzy-1nDrzX2eDO-00unsU; Fri, 10 Sep 2021 14:24:45 +0200 To: Glyn Normington , Carsten Bormann Cc: jsonpath@ietf.org References: <29436C3A-7AE6-454E-A6D2-D6514906521D@tzi.org> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Stefan_G=c3=b6ssner?= Message-ID: Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2021 14:24:45 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------49FF67142F1DD6893BB89B5B" X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:cCp+5dp5ipySIrscSlhoPcYMiIAeChD3q3uuUq5Wcd9EucVDBBf ICA9utvYI7G1DNimoKhgSDH4n8+oPg2LhipOgop0hpflPQRP2pOtDTHrdrEReGhOoxDxl2T pSaAyeeFfKAAyVwWSMlK8EZfJoh1L1WPl6iZEwg28sfLD0MNNjePIU6jiQRCmUSt/mGLMoH V5FuExoqCjGOsb2yMqjTA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:4DscfJZaOhU=:thrtIg2FaAWhn+ltHmgZxs vkovo2RCIyRWgk5TrSVRdsZkYMvZDmCb48wOypwII2UD+PdCXPrfhIK1JHG2un001rct9SSMG 38Vcb+/Z/ZALGNHclCsYMzKauqLiwqCsq0OjrLCV2Yx8NgaJa9YZhbYvlaSGPGWWTdQnV8stO srqrS+Azqu4yMrxQQufqUyHGmv3eIJHBw6T8qhAvgaSI22KgF+uz5hdBBJlerz8LUAy7UFZzU JApcM1M4hDOB3KematHmQGOKxlqM7Af+Y0Fy6ZO3JshBKhxDo0yanN4/22Cf+2ARUk+dPzrtG Gt++cahqEsDlSm+9gQM0OBK9zZ3eQKkP4AcTs/yKCiMLovJ6vAdWbcJYa7T5eL7SZXGbv/chS InvKG/21wBVDk8GrKRttx6PJ9drPrZRAbIBf0YztQuF5VB/t0u97PNXBv2rM3iqeYRppujz8V l8oFH0iQVWJSoFLgVvmJBUp0vAmOh7Xw1oUWFWW3AId4k1iMsMl3OULVeDDAKRZBnWJkqylCc RxTqhTQLHAfWpY6K8KbRuJ4+stLZEQAgEhtvlTmdiyj69piVco80I5xQDmzeViCeCEDuXeJl7 78GWgRF76HckzVACtXurOp1ZK3b5UI3ND+zsJgZYIeUhbZ1+eDLFPs+rcUdu4bkd3doFQIx7A lbzeSDVFi8GdzOujNV5R8gCkQfiRxRyHJRGFcxFKb6ye47WQ/6nvXgiX58Cc9Pfj5/NoPTu/8 e344jLhOo+T/hftJ/L4gmCHrkoaQKECHj3I93Q== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Jsonpath] Partial determinism of the descendant selector (..) X-BeenThere: jsonpath@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A summary description of the list to be included in the table on this page List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2021 12:25:04 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------49FF67142F1DD6893BB89B5B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I must confess, that I am quite passionless here, but I can see the usefulness for test. I am open to arguments in any directions, as long as it not too restrictive seen from implementations. -- sg Am 17.08.2021 um 12:43 schrieb Glyn Normington: > On Mon, 16 Aug 2021 at 15:50, Carsten Bormann > wrote: > > On 2021-08-16, at 16:07, Glyn Normington > > wrote: > > > > This topic is covered in issue 103, which seems to have stalled, > so let me put the main options to the mailing list to try to > discern any consensus. > > Regardless of the detailed language, please could you indicate > which of these options you favour: > > > > A. Don't tie down the non-determinism of .. at all > > > > B. Require .. to visit arrays in array order and visit nodes > before their descendants > > Yes. > (There is no order in maps, so this is as deterministic as it can > get.) > BTW, the term “pre-order” [1] is in wide use as a handy term for > "visit nodes before their descendants” (we would still define it > that way). > > > At the risk of another digression, pre-order is more prescriptive than > "visit nodes before their descendants". Take this example from [1]: > > image.png > > > Pre-order traversal would be "F, B, A, D, C, E, G, I, H", but "visit > nodes before their descendants” allows more possibilities, such as "F, > B, G, A, D, C, I, E, H". > > By being less prescriptive, I was trying to allow for parallel > implementations. > > > > C. Some other option involving B with the option of A or A with > the option of B, using some kind of language TBD. > > Yes, as well :-). > We haven’t really discussed levels of compliance, and a version of > “doesn’t return .. in order” could be a form of conditional > compliance. > *If* we think we need this to drag some implementations along. > (That is, I’d like to hear arguments of the form “We’d lose > foomatic’s JSONPath implementation because they make a point of > returning arrays in reverse order on Fridays” before we load > ourselves with conditional compliance.) > > Grüße, Carsten > > [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_traversal#Pre-order,_NLR > > (This article talks about binary trees only, probably because they > want to discuss in-order as well, which only makes sense for > binary trees.) > > > D. Something else, in which case please say what. > > > > Regards, > > > > Glyn > > > > > > > > -- > > Jsonpath mailing list > > Jsonpath@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonpath > > > > > Virenfrei. www.avg.com > > > > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > --------------49FF67142F1DD6893BB89B5B Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------83F4856C4292000876922556" --------------83F4856C4292000876922556 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I must confess, that I am quite passionless here, but I can see the usefulness for test. I am open to arguments in any directions, as long as it not too restrictive seen from implementations.
--
sg


Am 17.08.2021 um 12:43 schrieb Glyn Normington:
On Mon, 16 Aug 2021 at 15:50, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
On 2021-08-16, at 16:07, Glyn Normington <glyn.normington.work@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> This topic is covered in issue 103, which seems to have stalled, so let me put the main options to the mailing list to try to discern any consensus.
> Regardless of the detailed language, please could you indicate which of these options you favour:
>
> A. Don't tie down the non-determinism of .. at all
>
> B. Require .. to visit arrays in array order and visit nodes before their descendants

Yes.
(There is no order in maps, so this is as deterministic as it can get.)
BTW, the term “pre-order” [1] is in wide use as a handy term for "visit nodes before their descendants” (we would still define it that way).

At the risk of another digression, pre-order is more prescriptive than "visit nodes before their descendants". Take this example from [1]:

image.png


Pre-order traversal would be "F, B, A, D, C, E, G, I, H", but "visit nodes before their descendants” allows more possibilities, such as "F, B, G, A, D, C, I, E, H".

By being less prescriptive, I was trying to allow for parallel implementations.
 

> C. Some other option involving B with the option of A or A with the option of B, using some kind of language TBD.

Yes, as well :-).
We haven’t really discussed levels of compliance, and a version of “doesn’t return .. in order” could be a form of conditional compliance.
*If* we think we need this to drag some implementations along.
(That is, I’d like to hear arguments of the form “We’d lose foomatic’s JSONPath implementation because they make a point of returning arrays in reverse order on Fridays” before we load ourselves with conditional compliance.)

Grüße, Carsten

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_traversal#Pre-order,_NLR
(This article talks about binary trees only, probably because they want to discuss in-order as well, which only makes sense for binary trees.)

> D. Something else, in which case please say what.
>
> Regards,
>
> Glyn
>
>
>
> --
> Jsonpath mailing list
> Jsonpath@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonpath


Virenfrei. www.avg.com


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b=rOZvj4BkN4fwr84SdzBMILWeF3geJRrNqTeaYRYB8cOlNWn8RKbNtPBPlNd9TjsXpJ JCHDG9zKD++KxNA9cMjMoLQSfqi3TNuDILSFW/o4hBIMySUfMYzx9pE/DmwAPuU6gL3K 1iKLiKwvS1MgK4Dz/aNFVns+reqzB7COV74EcZO8yofwbrF3ctajSkHGjQ3T5u60y/PA IdcKhh+igbQbtgjYsIB7b4FIK1GKK63nra0RXplgemZ9l6sVckwKa523J/OD3GpsdiLG 8AbzTTQoUm2Sls2COIxH37YPe0GiLhnSz5vant41bVsZnPCglVAJTrNV/TkHr48alZoB ypeg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532Y5bK4+e2oAdAGpCgD91eXeLGGkj21WG9M/f4X9mUQO2mLEzqR TZ0DoepCniymOhOX/fTK6rkbuUbOuoNJmaRmbtvgqg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwaFpbQvpg2yX6PhsK5xqOAb3RnBfvVnVlfiHTLiwfuJrzhYRNFdXRjj2tI6uy7SCK3adFiSN3fXtdRgFSmtcM= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:2310:: with SMTP id o16mr5335834lfu.646.1631310035247; Fri, 10 Sep 2021 14:40:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <29436C3A-7AE6-454E-A6D2-D6514906521D@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: <29436C3A-7AE6-454E-A6D2-D6514906521D@tzi.org> From: Tim Bray Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2021 14:40:23 -0700 Message-ID: To: Carsten Bormann Cc: Glyn Normington , jsonpath@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002b786705cbaaf7d7" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Jsonpath] Partial determinism of the descendant selector (..) X-BeenThere: jsonpath@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A summary description of the list to be included in the table on this page List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2021 21:40:45 -0000 --0000000000002b786705cbaaf7d7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I would much prefer to avoid levels of compliance to the degree possible, so I am in favor of option B. I'd go further and be in favor of strict pre-order. In this case I think being unsurprisingly deterministic is more important than hypothetical optimizations that might turn out to unlock parallel implementations which might be relevant to some proportion of users. Anyhow, if you told me to write a parallel implementation that preserved pre-order, I think I could, by having each thread remember the array index it's rooted at, then re-stitching together, no? On Mon, Aug 16, 2021 at 7:50 AM Carsten Bormann wrote: > On 2021-08-16, at 16:07, Glyn Normington > wrote: > > > > This topic is covered in issue 103, which seems to have stalled, so let > me put the main options to the mailing list to try to discern any consens= us. > > Regardless of the detailed language, please could you indicate which of > these options you favour: > > > > A. Don't tie down the non-determinism of .. at all > > > > B. Require .. to visit arrays in array order and visit nodes before > their descendants > > Yes. > (There is no order in maps, so this is as deterministic as it can get.) > BTW, the term =E2=80=9Cpre-order=E2=80=9D [1] is in wide use as a handy t= erm for "visit > nodes before their descendants=E2=80=9D (we would still define it that wa= y). > > > C. Some other option involving B with the option of A or A with the > option of B, using some kind of language TBD. > > Yes, as well :-). > We haven=E2=80=99t really discussed levels of compliance, and a version o= f > =E2=80=9Cdoesn=E2=80=99t return .. in order=E2=80=9D could be a form of c= onditional compliance. > *If* we think we need this to drag some implementations along. > (That is, I=E2=80=99d like to hear arguments of the form =E2=80=9CWe=E2= =80=99d lose foomatic=E2=80=99s > JSONPath implementation because they make a point of returning arrays in > reverse order on Fridays=E2=80=9D before we load ourselves with condition= al > compliance.) > > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > > [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_traversal#Pre-order,_NLR > (This article talks about binary trees only, probably because they want t= o > discuss in-order as well, which only makes sense for binary trees.) > > > D. Something else, in which case please say what. > > > > Regards, > > > > Glyn > > > > > > > > -- > > Jsonpath mailing list > > Jsonpath@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonpath > > -- > Jsonpath mailing list > Jsonpath@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonpath > --0000000000002b786705cbaaf7d7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I w= ould much prefer to avoid levels of compliance to the degree possible, so I= am in favor of option B.

I'd go further and be in favor of strict pre-order. In this case I thi= nk being unsurprisingly deterministic is more important than hypothetical o= ptimizations that might turn out to unlock parallel implementations which m= ight be relevant to some proportion of users.=C2=A0 Anyhow, if you told me = to write a parallel implementation that preserved pre-order, I think I coul= d, by having each thread remember the array index it's rooted at, then = re-stitching together, no?

On Mon, Aug 16, 2021 at 7:50 AM Carsten Bor= mann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
On 2021-08-16, at 16:07, Glyn Normington <glyn.normington.w= ork@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> This topic is covered in issue 103, which seems to have stalled, so le= t me put the main options to the mailing list to try to discern any consens= us.
> Regardless of the detailed language, please could you indicate which o= f these options you favour:
>
> A. Don't tie down the non-determinism of .. at all
>
> B. Require .. to visit arrays in array order and visit nodes before th= eir descendants

Yes.
(There is no order in maps, so this is as deterministic as it can get.)
BTW, the term =E2=80=9Cpre-order=E2=80=9D [1] is in wide use as a handy ter= m for "visit nodes before their descendants=E2=80=9D (we would still d= efine it that way).

> C. Some other option involving B with the option of A or A with the op= tion of B, using some kind of language TBD.

Yes, as well :-).
We haven=E2=80=99t really discussed levels of compliance, and a version of = =E2=80=9Cdoesn=E2=80=99t return .. in order=E2=80=9D could be a form of con= ditional compliance.
*If* we think we need this to drag some implementations along.
(That is, I=E2=80=99d like to hear arguments of the form =E2=80=9CWe=E2=80= =99d lose foomatic=E2=80=99s JSONPath implementation because they make a po= int of returning arrays in reverse order on Fridays=E2=80=9D before we load= ourselves with conditional compliance.)

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_t= raversal#Pre-order,_NLR
(This article talks about binary trees only, probably because they want to = discuss in-order as well, which only makes sense for binary trees.)

> D. Something else, in which case please say what.
>
> Regards,
>
> Glyn
>
>
>
> --
> Jsonpath mailing list
> Jsonpath@ietf.o= rg
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonpath

--
Jsonpath mailing list
Jsonpath@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonpath
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Sat, 11 Sep 2021 00:17:59 +0000 To: Tim Bray , Carsten Bormann Cc: jsonpath@ietf.org, Glyn Normington References: <29436C3A-7AE6-454E-A6D2-D6514906521D@tzi.org> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Martin_J=2e_D=c3=bcrst?= Organization: Aoyama Gakuin University Message-ID: <3e0b9c1b-a0c8-b8fe-d5e6-5b35a9adaf07@it.aoyama.ac.jp> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2021 09:17:57 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.14.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-ClientProxiedBy: TYAPR01CA0150.jpnprd01.prod.outlook.com (2603:1096:404:7e::18) To TYAPR01MB5689.jpnprd01.prod.outlook.com (2603:1096:404:8053::7) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Received: from [192.168.1.12] (60.41.161.248) by TYAPR01CA0150.jpnprd01.prod.outlook.com (2603:1096:404:7e::18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4500.14 via Frontend Transport; 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X-BeenThere: jsonpath@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A summary description of the list to be included in the table on this page List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2021 00:18:09 -0000 I'm very much with Tim here. But if maps are by definition unordered, it looks like the whole argument about testing,... doesn't work out. Ruby for a long time pretended that hashes (the equivalent of maps) were unordered, but because users depended on the order the implementation produced, we eventually had to give up on that and declare them ordered. For JSON, the situation is probably different. Regards,   Martin. On 2021-09-11 06:40, Tim Bray wrote: > I would much prefer to avoid levels of compliance to the degree possible, > so I am in favor of option B. > > I'd go further and be in favor of strict pre-order. In this case I think > being unsurprisingly deterministic is more important than hypothetical > optimizations that might turn out to unlock parallel implementations which > might be relevant to some proportion of users. Anyhow, if you told me to > write a parallel implementation that preserved pre-order, I think I could, > by having each thread remember the array index it's rooted at, then > re-stitching together, no? > > On Mon, Aug 16, 2021 at 7:50 AM Carsten Bormann wrote: > >> On 2021-08-16, at 16:07, Glyn Normington >> wrote: >>> >>> This topic is covered in issue 103, which seems to have stalled, so let >> me put the main options to the mailing list to try to discern any consensus. >>> Regardless of the detailed language, please could you indicate which of >> these options you favour: >>> >>> A. Don't tie down the non-determinism of .. at all >>> >>> B. Require .. to visit arrays in array order and visit nodes before >> their descendants >> >> Yes. >> (There is no order in maps, so this is as deterministic as it can get.) >> BTW, the term “pre-order” [1] is in wide use as a handy term for "visit >> nodes before their descendants” (we would still define it that way). >> >>> C. Some other option involving B with the option of A or A with the >> option of B, using some kind of language TBD. >> >> Yes, as well :-). >> We haven’t really discussed levels of compliance, and a version of >> “doesn’t return .. in order” could be a form of conditional compliance. >> *If* we think we need this to drag some implementations along. >> (That is, I’d like to hear arguments of the form “We’d lose foomatic’s >> JSONPath implementation because they make a point of returning arrays in >> reverse order on Fridays” before we load ourselves with conditional >> compliance.) >> >> Grüße, Carsten >> >> [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_traversal#Pre-order,_NLR >> (This article talks about binary trees only, probably because they want to >> discuss in-order as well, which only makes sense for binary trees.) >> >>> D. Something else, in which case please say what. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Glyn From nobody Fri Sep 10 19:29:07 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FEA33A2B94 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2021 19:29:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qVh2NHuKSaB1 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2021 19:28:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-x635.google.com (mail-pl1-x635.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::635]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 574273A2B92 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2021 19:28:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-x635.google.com with SMTP id k17so2335353pls.0 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2021 19:28:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=5PWiJ3b4OeyzOGwcIkrgbOcnigbG93X2crS2Vn2xTyg=; b=I8xbELDSstxv1TvmqMrRytFnfWwAiduNMywBjKKvf/8mqSyxVKMPtdmLuo6G/1Ad4+ DqYdJ7whY7jFcCMH92NniFXIOoB29rNwaZX1klF/gcBgb3+ybsORHtTsTcrZ4ScZydzO fS7Ah4a0lU5GeRr5tVvonwomnnzcP47i1V35sHoZ5GObSCRs+1YAQTV6CW0RdSnyv1FC 3Q2flucySGAIBrsUtH+mOlhKvVtdUSvPjmrv8aHlkg2FQMIXD7/2JSBTgZXSiCmML1U5 Mhp2wF8rz5IARzF5GlrDHRCOlQS4S+88BLRa8rejgyvGuL7xi8b/5Sf1Hj5s2nHbANI/ kNew== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=5PWiJ3b4OeyzOGwcIkrgbOcnigbG93X2crS2Vn2xTyg=; b=2vxb+WSw8Kg0xrIsdstloZt1snAdO2bBCAM6k4c2FoxLaBhHuNnoZxdd5+EnPQ5A+p lQNRj5HO7J3wTaWY12Wtkd5gKFwTGYJIu6UKUXAI/Qr6rHl397ChA3nDyW6Dic2P2poc k+smxFrePzSgpqdX8nvyNCbHoMwrhygCflJN/oUHVOlcWMuIvErkl37R7hrgJCj7siYC PL1KSHyb/m0s6XizGmqv+l8mOg1BsVUshKauCwZ0xro+DzH26ZkTeQ9HQATbTIlbYb9T pZr9/3QWTISUFy356TPLIWxTQY8fhx0JQ+ACwj3FWopEtrl/WBsi+/doUs8j9mSimc4K 634A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533xQb2zS7DWwPsiiJd1jLjV/vn35yVhtfn4TL7UIxfLhI8MhQHJ LH+rPh3UMRM/2jlsTLawbvOtV1FDRMM7p/jFQ/Q= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzfzfX3VoHfgUSi+C5NQdtkkskyEQs5Aum+y31cQ6goKkCJOySX5df8GkkSgLfAeCmmU2nfLXbvg8bBF8/u03U= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:9511:: with SMTP id t17mr793937pjo.194.1631327337661; Fri, 10 Sep 2021 19:28:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <29436C3A-7AE6-454E-A6D2-D6514906521D@tzi.org> <3e0b9c1b-a0c8-b8fe-d5e6-5b35a9adaf07@it.aoyama.ac.jp> In-Reply-To: <3e0b9c1b-a0c8-b8fe-d5e6-5b35a9adaf07@it.aoyama.ac.jp> From: Glyn Normington Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2021 03:28:45 +0100 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Martin_J=2E_D=C3=BCrst?= Cc: Tim Bray , Carsten Bormann , jsonpath@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000794c7305cbaefe56" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Jsonpath] Partial determinism of the descendant selector (..) X-BeenThere: jsonpath@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A summary description of the list to be included in the table on this page List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2021 02:29:05 -0000 --000000000000794c7305cbaefe56 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, maps are unavoidably unordered, but that can be catered for in testing by using maps with only one key/value pair or by allowing multiple possible results for maps with more than one key/value pair. E.g. to unit test a selector containing `..`, I can make sure any maps in the input argument have only one key/value pair each. In other words, making `..` partially deterministic doesn't solve the testing problem for maps with more than one key/value pair, but it makes testing more tractable than with a non-deterministic `..`. On Sat, 11 Sept 2021 at 01:18, Martin J. D=C3=BCrst wrote: > I'm very much with Tim here. > > But if maps are by definition unordered, it looks like the whole > argument about testing,... doesn't work out. > > Ruby for a long time pretended that hashes (the equivalent of maps) were > unordered, but because users depended on the order the implementation > produced, we eventually had to give up on that and declare them ordered. > > For JSON, the situation is probably different. > > Regards, Martin. > > On 2021-09-11 06:40, Tim Bray wrote: > > I would much prefer to avoid levels of compliance to the degree possibl= e, > > so I am in favor of option B. > > > > I'd go further and be in favor of strict pre-order. In this case I thin= k > > being unsurprisingly deterministic is more important than hypothetical > > optimizations that might turn out to unlock parallel implementations > which > > might be relevant to some proportion of users. Anyhow, if you told me = to > > write a parallel implementation that preserved pre-order, I think I > could, > > by having each thread remember the array index it's rooted at, then > > re-stitching together, no? > > > > On Mon, Aug 16, 2021 at 7:50 AM Carsten Bormann wrote: > > > >> On 2021-08-16, at 16:07, Glyn Normington < > glyn.normington.work@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> This topic is covered in issue 103, which seems to have stalled, so l= et > >> me put the main options to the mailing list to try to discern any > consensus. > >>> Regardless of the detailed language, please could you indicate which = of > >> these options you favour: > >>> > >>> A. Don't tie down the non-determinism of .. at all > >>> > >>> B. Require .. to visit arrays in array order and visit nodes before > >> their descendants > >> > >> Yes. > >> (There is no order in maps, so this is as deterministic as it can get.= ) > >> BTW, the term =E2=80=9Cpre-order=E2=80=9D [1] is in wide use as a hand= y term for "visit > >> nodes before their descendants=E2=80=9D (we would still define it that= way). > >> > >>> C. Some other option involving B with the option of A or A with the > >> option of B, using some kind of language TBD. > >> > >> Yes, as well :-). > >> We haven=E2=80=99t really discussed levels of compliance, and a versio= n of > >> =E2=80=9Cdoesn=E2=80=99t return .. in order=E2=80=9D could be a form o= f conditional compliance. > >> *If* we think we need this to drag some implementations along. > >> (That is, I=E2=80=99d like to hear arguments of the form =E2=80=9CWe= =E2=80=99d lose foomatic=E2=80=99s > >> JSONPath implementation because they make a point of returning arrays = in > >> reverse order on Fridays=E2=80=9D before we load ourselves with condit= ional > >> compliance.) > >> > >> Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > >> > >> [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_traversal#Pre-order,_NLR > >> (This article talks about binary trees only, probably because they wan= t > to > >> discuss in-order as well, which only makes sense for binary trees.) > >> > >>> D. Something else, in which case please say what. > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> > >>> Glyn > > --000000000000794c7305cbaefe56 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes, maps are unavoidably unordered, but that can be = catered for in testing by using maps with only one key/value pair or by all= owing multiple possible results for maps with more than one key/value pair.= E.g. to unit test a selector containing `..`, I can make sure any maps in = the input argument have only one key/value pair each.

<= div>In other words, making `..` partially deterministic doesn't solve t= he testing problem for maps with more than one key/value pair, but it makes= testing more tractable than with a non-deterministic `..`.

=
On Sat, 11= Sept 2021 at 01:18, Martin J. D=C3=BCrst <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp> wrote:
I'm very much with Tim here.

But if maps are by definition unordered, it looks like the whole
argument about testing,... doesn't work out.

Ruby for a long time pretended that hashes (the equivalent of maps) were unordered, but because users depended on the order the implementation
produced, we eventually had to give up on that and declare them ordered.
For JSON, the situation is probably different.

Regards, =C2=A0 Martin.

On 2021-09-11 06:40, Tim Bray wrote:
> I would much prefer to avoid levels of compliance to the degree possib= le,
> so I am in favor of option B.
>
> I'd go further and be in favor of strict pre-order. In this case I= think
> being unsurprisingly deterministic is more important than hypothetical=
> optimizations that might turn out to unlock parallel implementations w= hich
> might be relevant to some proportion of users.=C2=A0 Anyhow, if you to= ld me to
> write a parallel implementation that preserved pre-order, I think I co= uld,
> by having each thread remember the array index it's rooted at, the= n
> re-stitching together, no?
>
> On Mon, Aug 16, 2021 at 7:50 AM Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
>
>> On 2021-08-16, at 16:07, Glyn Normington <glyn.normington.work@gmail.c= om>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> This topic is covered in issue 103, which seems to have stalle= d, so let
>> me put the main options to the mailing list to try to discern any = consensus.
>>> Regardless of the detailed language, please could you indicate= which of
>> these options you favour:
>>>
>>> A. Don't tie down the non-determinism of .. at all
>>>
>>> B. Require .. to visit arrays in array order and visit nodes b= efore
>> their descendants
>>
>> Yes.
>> (There is no order in maps, so this is as deterministic as it can = get.)
>> BTW, the term =E2=80=9Cpre-order=E2=80=9D [1] is in wide use as a = handy term for "visit
>> nodes before their descendants=E2=80=9D (we would still define it = that way).
>>
>>> C. Some other option involving B with the option of A or A wit= h the
>> option of B, using some kind of language TBD.
>>
>> Yes, as well :-).
>> We haven=E2=80=99t really discussed levels of compliance, and a ve= rsion of
>> =E2=80=9Cdoesn=E2=80=99t return .. in order=E2=80=9D could be a fo= rm of conditional compliance.
>> *If* we think we need this to drag some implementations along.
>> (That is, I=E2=80=99d like to hear arguments of the form =E2=80=9C= We=E2=80=99d lose foomatic=E2=80=99s
>> JSONPath implementation because they make a point of returning arr= ays in
>> reverse order on Fridays=E2=80=9D before we load ourselves with co= nditional
>> compliance.)
>>
>> Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten
>>
>> [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wi= ki/Tree_traversal#Pre-order,_NLR
>> (This article talks about binary trees only, probably because they= want to
>> discuss in-order as well, which only makes sense for binary trees.= )
>>
>>> D. Something else, in which case please say what.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Glyn

--000000000000794c7305cbaefe56-- From nobody Mon Sep 13 10:34:09 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A3603A0E18 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2021 10:34:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 53Tm68QWArvr for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2021 10:34:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x435.google.com (mail-wr1-x435.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::435]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C83833A0EAE for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2021 10:34:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x435.google.com with SMTP id d21so8210940wra.12 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 2021 10:34:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=prwHXumLVIThQmBxHAx/QDR4WNZShCFpzU2k6BW1phA=; b=p9e8b8wAVaJCTAqKlyzV70lnc4O5e/AA2Ex9jKA/iZ6XcUL0WixaDHR5kTMnAoPCBo Jbw8y6fn3c1EH70b9yt7wWrWvjPoF81R+uh9XPRnz0eDK+UhKRbpNU/cmhW3GR8cuVoN FD2XIbMkRDY3cSykyXl/q2jO9oOBVkd3i/fnRoem2GWkyuInzIlkeGVYsZqQAHhh8pbD s+mytqUdoe7NVFLbO85KfDHYuyX7vprjMTiJDGNSnACULxt1gPWcoBwuZIGp0RmJTeus 0K5kpHn3oZygVLgCQKu4BIo/ad38j/jUDaoyFtZaGNHo+CCKHOt6YmJqXVieDZMcjI5l YC8w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=prwHXumLVIThQmBxHAx/QDR4WNZShCFpzU2k6BW1phA=; b=YEZFOb17JQ4qPd3hcZ/t6Dq6wrmBp7/LVd2Jv9jMUODp4LUV0HGFjEPZyhM+TpKIPC KsevFlxWEWVahO46HaGGkMDGTmaitWs4ZPHN6qJyCy7EvJkH0AbaITlp4EG0gl6mrR2A 5frrMOF9/TaRAZXlZixy4e99rUN/BG63mK5DKDbsJHyIjL4aQ1VcAX8HI+JGL7Th6o18 /LHViF5/RdnOudgfx+L3XKr0j1q6OP1JdoAA1klUUBpsm6lsmMD2o1yAUtsn5J5ztJ8y cNbFiGOWvdZSH5ghWlpdRyIGKKEIh1nPwJverkvDsUcrfZatNQShPDjY3K6omWn0rZ+c n5wg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531uO5PUqUdOJ80zeEmvd7Mp0e9bgPGeTyT1JF3XaeVys87zWTdE P0h/IRHh38WkYQT7sF3isUQtifkvCr/t/z1O8ODtrFXgD4w= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwpxx91gnvPcE2x81r7k9SrdJ3e9Lv3hGrXlZGpe0dh0FS2L7bA48fpSN/XUZnZL+3ipKyWeIRVgADOeSuQHlA= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:5408:: with SMTP id g8mr14162182wrv.34.1631554435730; Mon, 13 Sep 2021 10:33:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Daniel P Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2021 13:33:43 -0400 Message-ID: To: jsonpath@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Jsonpath] truthy and falsy X-BeenThere: jsonpath@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A summary description of the list to be included in the table on this page List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2021 17:34:06 -0000 On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 6:38 AM Stefan G=C3=B6ssner w= rote: > > The latest draft is quite clear: > > > The query is a sequence of zero or more selectors, each of which is app= lied to the result of the previous selector and provides input to the next = selector. These results and inputs take the form of a nodelist, i.e., a seq= uence of zero or more nodes. > Yes, but by query you're referring to grammatical strings that start with '$'. I was responding in context to grammatical strings that start with '@' in expressions, e.g. $[?(@.name)]. In terms of the current JSON landscape, do strings that start with '@' represent JSONPath expressions in the same way as strings that start with '$'? And evaluated accordingly? Or do they correspond to a Javascript (or another dynamic language) variable, holding an object, array, string, number, boolean, or null value, and evaluated according to the rules of that language? It depends upon what implementation you look at. At least 12 (probably more) implementations in the JSONPath Comparisons regard strings that start with '@' to be JSONPath expressions. Of these, 12 also accept strings starting with '@' outside expressions in place of '$', e.g. "@.foo", to do otherwise would only complicate their grammar. These include the Java Jayway implementation, which is part of the bedrock of JSONPath, deeply embedded in legacy Java API's. But in the implementations that use a dynamic language for evaluating queries, such as Goessner Javascript, strings that start with '@' don't mean JSONPath expressions at all. In these languages, '@' means a variable holding an object, array, string, number, boolean, or null value as represented in that language, and nothing more. There are no "nodelists", however understood, here. These implementations do not accept strings starting with '@' outside expressions in place of '$', as it would serve no purpose. I realize the WG draft hasn't completed its specification for expressions yet. But as I read the draft, it seems to me to be specifying the grammar and semantics for expressions, like the first group of implementations does, but at the same time adopting a meaning for '@' that is closer to that of the second group, more like a Javascript variable than a JSONPath expression. I expect more clarification will make its way into the draft. My only intent with these observations is to express scepticism about whether it's even possible to have a JSONPath specification that mirrors current practice. On many points, the answer to the question, what do implementations do, is "It depends on what implementation you look at." It looks to me that the WG is picking and choosing features that they like from various implementations, and is moving towards an end point that will be different in some way from all existing implementations. If there was a strong vendor interest to have a common understanding of JSONPath for future API's, that might work. But I don't think there is. I don't think vendors would have any interest in revisiting their legacy API's. And as for the present and future, they appear to be more interested in W3C and Oasis efforts around JsonIq. > > I see your post as a hint for us to perhaps concretise the 'nodelist' def= inition in the spec and check its use throughout the text. > -- In my original remarks, I put the term "nodelist" in quotes, and accepted its meaning as returning a sequence of something. I didn't want to focus on that, my point was that for a significant part of the JSONPath landscape, in expressions containing strings that start with '@', there would be no sequence of anything, just one thing. I concede that I have some difficulty with understanding the meaning of "nodelist" as it's used in the draft :-) There are implementations, e.g. https://www.npmjs.com/package/jsonpath, that support methods for returning values, paths or nodes (path-value pairs) and I understand what those mean. I don't understand what the draft means by this definition of Node List: "The output of applying a query to an argument is manifested as a list of nodes. While this list can be represented in JSON, e.g. as an array, the nodelist is an abstract concept unrelated to JSON values." But that's another matter. Daniel From nobody Tue Sep 14 05:32:25 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56AA13A1975 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2021 05:32:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8RGBPqTlVjNP for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2021 05:32:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm1-x330.google.com (mail-wm1-x330.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::330]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8F3543A1971 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2021 05:32:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm1-x330.google.com with SMTP id d207-20020a1c1dd8000000b00307e2d1ec1aso2403306wmd.5 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 2021 05:32:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=nxZ7M/RxkorYCbUuHaL917+R4pbKV2vfOC/LXp1HvKk=; b=C4hHiltXHUqd3kCBnJTkoSUX8iASUpgILhkmTYIVSHwNRvMl4fdm33C7v6ASvlf8rP FTSCyDj9ASBy1hVeq/E1jDQGksDgqonI3BDyYkwZNE1MQw1Py5kr3p1juBriaktbuc4F w3fJfuUd1ZJWUw5Ex+B1bgw1EKL/0wW1Y2vFAD7vYS/L0JEkgNOa5yM7MzIOpIoEsmeQ N/hYFNQNN/qdYl5U1z12BeEAVeB40UDQ3wp2+zcYBp2E5FRTU0xPHQH2Oj1ksQbvYg69 H2XV2EbgEnrF7D9MND+/jE3o/AtVTR5P6Z/lHgruuWDUOimmady1qOS8EwLqAR/HXGcs bnIA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=nxZ7M/RxkorYCbUuHaL917+R4pbKV2vfOC/LXp1HvKk=; b=FH0p9VHEmgAl36vRarolojxlkbpR0iiwY7XM63oV0gIzljYTRRoIF9Qcxc0cZf3/sc N7ILaGV57btN5rjgBB2JRDMkZn7+g/P27PsmMO9/OEauNFQ2FuzgXfDs925t6REwSa0J cXd5fdQQn5RcfZM+Po1YwWnjfaiGjJu0mesElTcpsaEc1qCb0FlOET6Y/ZK5QzXZq2Z7 ZdYiQH6XToH24z+Hi1KvKjn/TdCqeEefKbWb19PQ3N3KaIm3d9RzqtJEAMPWO9MU7nvD p2+yKbuiouZe8ySxrScfOCS4ReM/s58taXIeMgJ17o7Dpz0btOpYxGc0gAuAIB4X9W7D itng== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530BPVzIDBf9V0B5BZy68N1boPXx/e1VnoWu6F9jOJMVRkp8JOG1 fu2KD205asqnWOIFtDPHKUXz57FIdglZwf+grfC0ijKT6tg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyOg2eObGjQyGtHBZLMR0Wr/VTmdsF/kG2XiuwD7usr19IavhQ6ieslA8vINgDKl8Zr2P7S9pj1NdUAsrHAugc= X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:21d6:: with SMTP id x22mr1941944wmj.121.1631622735125; Tue, 14 Sep 2021 05:32:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Daniel P Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2021 08:32:02 -0400 Message-ID: To: jsonpath@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Jsonpath] Jsonpath Digest, Vol 15, Issue 4 X-BeenThere: jsonpath@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A summary description of the list to be included in the table on this page List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2021 12:32:23 -0000 > From: Glyn Normington > > > > These observations suggest that it might be helpful to include a note > > in the draft that clarifies the purpose of the WG. Is it to > > standardize existing behaviour? > > Yes. Please see our charter: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/jsonpath/ab= out/ > Thanks for the clarification. > > What would that mean when the extant > > implementations exhibit different behaviour, and because they are > > entrenched in legacy API's, they cannot change? > > The charter says: > > "Where there are > differences, the working group will analyze those differences and > make choices that rough consensus considers technically best, with > an aim toward minimizing disruption among the different JSONPath > implementations." > > So we don't have to preserve all existing behaviour. It will be up to > each implementation whether or not to migrate to the eventual > standard. > The differences, as I'm sure you know, are fundamental. Given the document [{"key" : false}], does "$[?(@.key)]" return [{"key" : false}] or []? It depends on what implementation you use. In an expression like @.foo, does @.foo mean a JsonPath expression evaluated with an EvaluateSingle method, as it does in Jayway and a dozen other implementations, or does it mean a JavaScript like variable evaluated with key foo? It depends on what implementation you use. Can you write "$[?(@.foo[?(@ =3D=3D 'bar')])]"? It depends whether you're using an implementation where @.foo is a JSONPath expression or not. Can we use functions in expressions like $[?(@.key.normalize()=3D=3D"Mot=C3=B6rhead".normalize())]? It depends on what implementation you use. The two most influential implementations in the evolution of JSONPath, Goessner JsonPath and Jayway JsonPath, come down on different sides for each of the points listed above. > > Or is it to invent > > something new, inspired by the original, picking and choosing from > > popular implementations as the WG sees fit? If something new, should > > it have a different name? > > I doubt we want to reinvent JMESPath. > That's a different thing. JMESPath transforms JSON documents, JSONPath is generally regarded as selecting from JSON documents. (Although even there, Jayway, regarded as the second most influential JSONPath implementation, supports transformation via tail functions. Another differe= nce.) Realistically, I think that whatever the WG produces will be something new. A JSONPath B, so to speak. It's unavoidable. Existing behaviour cannot be standardized because it's too different. Daniel From nobody Fri Sep 17 01:59:23 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6105A3A0E62 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2021 01:59:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=textuality-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hSy7ZASDFgcq for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2021 01:59:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x12a.google.com (mail-lf1-x12a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 234FF3A0E6B for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2021 01:59:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x12a.google.com with SMTP id x27so30154564lfu.5 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 2021 01:59:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=textuality-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=sFQlBvZHqWXTplSnm2wpeLKSko0Zs3VWfe5kg7VMJ1A=; b=KKpaIMdnIgvrDUTmYGKiGWX6MrWGdSmfZMjmYHdCTMI7rFp6BekDgYamnuLoCcldHy JIFYpcv1FuDgobsRI85klUCGL4Jty4WrrmigP6X0z86bZWyW8fEYiQpLxfU90gyd08Zt kO/mmCpwmWDj4qIXrK8AQzlvvxSHbpNDQwOn2zwmhPUJZm1dWUINn/jZwCpkxunt4l7E V85SThfF2cCBDlnULTittx8R0/EnVZ6cwJTRi+uesCd2c7FYlX2YbTTFFNhfi3WELleW g8KYK6X9zFftZm0Zc8J3YO9sucMLg1MK83N+UBLSSFv38hAOG9AZjUC8wUM1R/VM1jnB DgsA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=sFQlBvZHqWXTplSnm2wpeLKSko0Zs3VWfe5kg7VMJ1A=; b=HObQjWhiOLRL16WRpODmzYh8CEP4sZ50+37B2XP0mxJvFpsqb0J2m6CSlTTRViNVV1 pbbtsewCOZ0osSb2RN/2BqmJQ6QN2PBMfkiBzEWM0p3eK+t8dEQsgARw1iJwzGydJhfr x9Z9wNwWd+yd37xy3AeTip55/1yOSNTmNeCWVs42Az+9X5zhe7+RbGxYzWKqKfN0MX20 dBIVL3IWB45uSYUsC2tCx84TMz57e/PcTdCn4otxmSyg2XmvKAgj2e7cyQt1IoRLUup4 FeXMg4rPiKVCeL6mfW/cRsAAzvWgm/h4ZSs7ssQ7RYRb6RZFBarr1QiT6KMGJGochV8D uHdQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530NaGkYykSXwfGk3WtmcjkpreBASU7LPHDNe+000tpqJAOg8eT4 LSxVFvum9As4N5ex7LJQSAFE4G16Di5ASeJ/LI6wv+nbfRY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzrm79A5k62l6jQrkk7yx6nLGcB0YAPPuNIwQVw3FD/qxdt6jpSdFXK/iGoba4fYKvHk+bRbF5m12CmJD0X1NY= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:2310:: with SMTP id o16mr7247447lfu.646.1631869153101; Fri, 17 Sep 2021 01:59:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <163008927686.7055.10612889466780867836@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <163008927686.7055.10612889466780867836@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Tim Bray Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2021 01:59:02 -0700 Message-ID: To: jsonpath@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000030e87e05cc2d250d" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Jsonpath] JSON Path (jsonpath) WG Virtual Meeting: 2021-09-17 X-BeenThere: jsonpath@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A summary description of the list to be included in the table on this page List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2021 08:59:22 -0000 --00000000000030e87e05cc2d250d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Reminder - this is now spinning up. On Fri, Aug 27, 2021 at 11:34 AM IESG Secretary wrote: > The JSON Path (jsonpath) WG will hold > a virtual interim meeting on 2021-09-17 from 09:00 to 11:00 UTC. > > Agenda: > Agenda TBC > > Information about remote participation: > > https://meetings.conf.meetecho.com/interim/?short=ae48f1c2-565e-4d19-8605-8fd3e3677a68 > > -- > Jsonpath mailing list > Jsonpath@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonpath > --00000000000030e87e05cc2d250d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Rem= inder - this is now spinning up.

=
On Fri, Aug 27, 2021 at 11:34 AM IESG= Secretary <iesg-secretary@ie= tf.org> wrote:
The JSON Path (jsonpath) WG= will hold
a virtual interim meeting on 2021-09-17 from 09:00 to 11:00 UTC.

Agenda:
Agenda TBC

Information about remote participation:
https://meet= ings.conf.meetecho.com/interim/?short=3Dae48f1c2-565e-4d19-8605-8fd3e3677a6= 8

--
Jsonpath mailing list
Jsonpath@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonpath
--00000000000030e87e05cc2d250d-- From nobody Fri Sep 17 05:30:06 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: jsonpath@ietf.org Delivered-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7254C3A1719; Fri, 17 Sep 2021 05:30:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: francesca.palombini@ericsson.com, james.ietf@gmail.com, jsonpath-chairs@ietf.org, jsonpath@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.37.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <163188180332.17566.1173260123727355427@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2021 05:30:03 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Jsonpath] jsonpath - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 112 X-BeenThere: jsonpath@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: A summary description of the list to be included in the table on this page List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2021 12:30:04 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by James Gruessing, a Chair of the jsonpath working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: JSON Path Area Name: Applications and Real-Time Area Session Requester: James Gruessing Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 20 Conflicts to Avoid: Chair conflict: dispatch ntp Key participant conflict: t2trg People who must be present: Tim Bray Francesca Palombini James Gruessing Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Fri Sep 24 05:35:50 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: jsonpath@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC9F53A26E7 for ; 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Fri, 24 Sep 2021 05:35:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Glyn Normington Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2021 13:35:30 +0100 Message-ID: To: jsonpath@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000049a26605ccbcfc68" Archived-At: Subject: [Jsonpath] Fwd: [xml2rfc] New xml2rfc release: v3.10.0 X-BeenThere: jsonpath@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: A summary description of the list to be included in the table on this page List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2021 12:35:49 -0000 --00000000000049a26605ccbcfc68 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" It would be good to upgrade the version of xml2rfc that is used by our CI to fix the rendering problem (extraneous double quotes) with Table 5 of the text version ([1]) of our draft. I raised https://github.com/martinthomson/i-d-template/issues/312, but I'm not sure how to implement it. If anyone is interested and has the time, please take a look. [1] https://ietf-wg-jsonpath.github.io/draft-ietf-jsonpath-base/draft-ietf-jsonpath-base.txt ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Date: Tue, 21 Sept 2021 at 19:12 Subject: [xml2rfc] New xml2rfc release: v3.10.0 To: , Cc: Hi, This is an automatic notification about a new xml2rfc release, v3.10.0, generated when running the mkrelease script. Release notes: xml2rfc (3.10.0) ietf; urgency=low * Merged in [4043] from krathnayake@ietf.org: Fixes Python compatibility issues in bin/uglifycall. * Merged in [4042] and [4045] from krathnayake@ietf.org: Updates docker/run command to support Apple M1. Fixes #675. * Merged in [4041] from krathnayake@ietf.org: Adds missing line joiner settings for
    and
      . Fixes #673. * Merged in [4040] from jennifer@painless-security.com: Fix Makefile rule precedence and repair canonical.xml test to work with yestest. Fixes #671. * Merged in [4037] from krathnayake@ietf.org: Changes RFC regression test to be a seperate test. * Merged in [4036] from krathnayake@ietf.org: Adds RFC regression tests. Fixes #667. * Merged in [4016] from krathnayake@ietf.org: Fix for bad PDF breaks. * pin weasyprint<53 for tox tests * Merged in [4020] from krathnayake@ietf.org: Sort class values in HTML output. Fixes #553. * Merged in [4018] and [4019] from jennifer@painless-security.com: Keep pns from incoming xml when present; handle case that an author does not have an after-next element. Fixes #664. * Merged in [4012] from krathnayake@ietf.org: Remove quotes from the text rendering of . Fixes #600 and #647. * Merged in [4011] from krathnayake@ietf.org: Fix info block runoff issue in PDFs. Fixes #606. * Merged in [4010] from krathnayake@ietf.org: Remove unicode entity replacement step from v2v3 conversion. Fixes #641. * Merged in [4009] from krathnayake@ietf.org: Cache XML XInclude files with referencegroup. Fixes #653. -- Robert Sparks 21 Aug 2021 19:02:15 +0000 The preferred way to install xml2rfc is by doing 'pip install xml2rfc', and 'pip install --upgrade xml2rfc' to upgrade. If there are system- installed python modules which pip will not upgrade, you may have to use 'pip install --upgrade --no-deps xml2rfc' and install dependencies manually. The new version is also available through SVN checkout, with 'svn checkout https://svn.ietf.org/svn/tools/xml2rfc/tags/cli/3.10.0' Documentation for this release is built-in, and also available at: https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/xml2rfc-doc-3.10.0.html Regards, Robert Sparks (via the mkrelease script) _______________________________________________ xml2rfc mailing list xml2rfc@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xml2rfc --00000000000049a26605ccbcfc68 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
      It would be good to upgrade the version of xml2rfc th= at is used by our CI to fix the rendering problem (extraneous double quotes= ) with Table 5 of the text version ([1]) of our draft.

      =
      I raised https://github.com/martinthomson/i-d-template/issues/312, but I= 'm not sure how to implement it. If anyone is interested and has the ti= me, please take a look.


      ---------- Forwarded messa= ge ---------
      From: <rjsparks@nostrum.com>
      Date: Tu= e, 21 Sept 2021 at 19:12
      Subject: [xml2rfc] New xml2rfc release: v3.10.0=
      To: <xml2= rfc-dev@ietf.org>, <xml2rfc@ietf.org>
      Cc: <rfc-markdown@ietf.org>


      Hi,

      This is an automatic notification about a new xml2rfc release,
      v3.10.0, generated when running the mkrelease script.

      Release notes:

      xml2rfc (3.10.0) ietf; urgency=3Dlow

      =C2=A0 * Merged in [4043] from krathnayake@ietf.org:
      =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Fixes Python compatibility issues in bin/uglifycall.

      =C2=A0 * Merged in [4042] and [4045] from krathnayake@ietf.org:
      =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Updates docker/run command to support Apple M1. Fixes=C2=A0 #= 675.

      =C2=A0 * Merged in [4041] from krathnayake@ietf.org:
      =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Adds missing line joiner settings for <ol> and <ul&g= t;. Fixes #673.

      =C2=A0 * Merged in [4040] from jennifer@painless-security.com:
      =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Fix Makefile rule precedence and repair canonical.xml test to=
      =C2=A0 =C2=A0 work with yestest. Fixes #671.

      =C2=A0 * Merged in [4037] from krathnayake@ietf.org:
      =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Changes RFC regression test to be a seperate test.

      =C2=A0 * Merged in [4036] from krathnayake@ietf.org:
      =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Adds RFC regression tests. Fixes #667.

      =C2=A0 * Merged in [4016] from krathnayake@ietf.org:
      =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Fix for bad PDF breaks.

      =C2=A0 * pin weasyprint<53 for tox tests

      =C2=A0 * Merged in [4020] from krathnayake@ietf.org:
      =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Sort class values in HTML output. Fixes #553.

      =C2=A0 * Merged in [4018] and [4019] from jennifer@painless-security.com:
      =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Keep pns from incoming xml when present; handle case that an = author
      =C2=A0 =C2=A0 does not have an after-next element. Fixes #664.

      =C2=A0 * Merged in [4012] from krathnayake@ietf.org:
      =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Remove quotes from the text rendering of <tt>. Fixes #6= 00 and #647.

      =C2=A0 * Merged in [4011] from krathnayake@ietf.org:
      =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Fix info block runoff issue in PDFs. Fixes #606.

      =C2=A0 * Merged in [4010] from krathnayake@ietf.org:
      =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Remove unicode entity replacement step from v2v3 conversion. = Fixes #641.

      =C2=A0 * Merged in [4009] from krathnayake@ietf.org:
      =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Cache XML XInclude files with referencegroup. Fixes #653.

      =C2=A0-- Robert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com>=C2=A0 21 Aug 2021 19:02:15 +0000
      The preferred way to install xml2rfc is by doing 'pip install xml2rfc&#= 39;,
      and 'pip install --upgrade xml2rfc' to upgrade.=C2=A0 If there are = system-
      installed python modules which pip will not upgrade, you may have to
      use 'pip install --upgrade --no-deps xml2rfc' and install dependenc= ies
      manually.

      The new version is also available through SVN checkout, with
      =C2=A0 'svn checkout https://svn.ietf.org/= svn/tools/xml2rfc/tags/cli/3.10.0'

      Documentation for this release is built-in, and also available at:
      =C2=A0 https://xml2rfc.tools.ietf.org/xml2rfc-= doc-3.10.0.html

      Regards,

      =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Robert Sparks
      =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (via the mkrelease script)

      _______________________________________________
      xml2rfc mailing list
      xml2rfc@ietf.org<= br> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xml2rfc
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