Subject: [eman] removing requirements on THD and impedance

From: Juergen Quittek <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 02:55:58 +0000

Dear all,

Would anybody have a problem with dropping the following two
requirements from draft-ietf-eman-energy-aware?

5.3.9.  Total harmonic distortion

   The standard must provide means for reporting the Total Harmonic
   Distortion (THD) of voltage and current for each power interface.  In
   case of AC power supply, means must be provided for reporting the THD
   per phase.

5.3.10.  Power supply impedance

   The standard must provide means for reporting the impedance of power
   supply for each power interface.  In case of AC power supply, means
   must be provided for reporting the impedance per phase.

These are power quality parameters that are indeed useful for power
quality monitoring.  But our focus is on energy management that does
Not necessarily include extensive power quality monitoring.

Thanks,

    Juergen

---

From: Brad Schoening <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 23:30:07 -0500

Juergen,

This would be ok if we wish to drop support for smart meters in EMAN.
Some of the most basic smart meters in the $200-$300 price range provide
THD and impedance measurements.

I just took a look at the Electro Industries 'Shark 100' smart meter which
is a popular meter used here in the US.  The 100 class meter is the low
end of their product series.  I believe you'll find the same to be true
for European meters, such as Carlo Gavazzi or TE Connectivity.

Section 1.4 is devoted to 'Harmonic Distortion'.

Section 1.5 states some of the reasons for being concerned about power
quality measurements:

	"It is often assumed that power quality problems originate with the
utility. While it is true that
	Many power quality problems can originate with the utility system, many
problems originate with
	customer equipment. Customer-caused problems may manifest themselves
inside the customer
	location or they may be transported by the utility system to another
adjacent customer. Often,
	equipment that is sensitive to power quality problems may in fact also be
the cause of the problem

So, it comes back to if smart meters should be in-scope for our
requirements. If smart meters are in-scope, we should probably support
their core attributes.  Should be easy too, since these attributes are in
a separate, optional table mapped to IEC 61850-7-4.

Regards,

Brad

On 3/13/12 10:55 PM, "Juergen Quittek" <[email-masked]> wrote:

>_______________________________________________
>eman mailing list
>[email-masked]
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---

From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 07:07:36 +0000

Hi Jurgen,

I am not in favor of removing these two requirements! 

In my opinion power quality monitoring and management is very important when buildings and neighborhoods are using sustainable and renewable electrical energy generation sources and when they need to be coupled to the electrical energy infrastructure. These sustainable and renewable electrical energy generation sources can be coupled to the electrical energy infrastructure only when the quality of their generated power is such that do not cause any sudden variation in the voltage supported by the electrical energy infrstructure (see IEEE 1547). Note that the electrical energy generation from such sustainable and renewable energy sources is seldom constant over time.

Energy management can be used to monitor and manage the power quality of the electrical energy generated by sustainable and renewable electrical energy generation sources such that they can be coupled and remain coupled to the to the electrical energy infrastructure.

Therefore, I think that it is needed that these requirements should remain in the draft!

Best regards,
Georgios

________________________________________
Van: [email-masked] [[email-masked]] namens Juergen Quittek [[email-masked]]
Verzonden: woensdag 14 maart 2012 3:55
Aan: eman mailing list
Onderwerp: [eman] removing requirements on THD and impedance

Dear all,

Thanks,

    Juergen

---

From: Benoit Claise <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 10:36:37 +0100

Juergen,
> a separate, optional table mapped to IEC 61850-7-4.
I would like to add that THD and impedance are anyway optional in the 
MIB modules compliance statements.

Btw, this is in 
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-eman-energy-monitoring-mib-02, and 
not in draft-ietf-eman-energy-aware

Regards, Benoit.
>
> Regards,
>
> Brad
>
>
>
> On 3/13/12 10:55 PM, "Juergen Quittek"<[email-masked]>  wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>>

---

From: "John Parello (jparello)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 09:24:57 -0700

I see no reason to drop it as a requirement if it is optional as implemented in the monitoring drafts 

For manufacturing deployments this is particularly needed since the types of devices that are networked are "mechanical" in nature and these types of power quality issues are more prevalent. 

agains EW the industrial automation drafts I presented. They are optional there as well so that devices that can measure these values are able to.

Jp 

Sent from my iPad

On Mar 14, 2012, at 2:36 AM, "Benoit Claise" <[email-masked]> wrote:

> I would like to add that THD and impedance are anyway optional in the MIB modules compliance statements. 
> 
> Btw, this is in http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-eman-energy-monitoring-mib-02, and not in draft-ietf-eman-energy-aware
> 
> Regards, Benoit.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Brad
>> 
>> 
>>