From owner-ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Fri Dec 6 10:22:39 2002 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6AMSbU010426 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:22:28 GMT Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.6/8.12.2/Submit) id gB6AMSTb010424 for ip-dvb-subscribed-users; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:22:28 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from erg.abdn.ac.uk (gresley.erg.abdn.ac.uk [139.133.207.106]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gB6AMKbU010396 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:22:20 GMT Message-ID: <3DF07A5D.F54975F7@erg.abdn.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 10:22:21 +0000 From: Dr G Fairhurst Organization: ERG, Aberdeen, UK X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Subject: IP-DVB: Notes from Atlanta Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk There was an unofficial meeting of people from the ip-dvb list at 5:30pm after the IETF meeting on 20th November. Here's a brief summary of what was discussed. New encapsulation ----------------- Discussion again about "why" this was needed? - Was it processing efficiency in software? - Was it to improve bandwidth utilisation? - Was it to help standardise features? (add new features?) All were true, but motivation depends heavily on the intended application. There were some plans to do pilot implementations in 2003. Simple configuration of clients ------------------------------- "plug & play" . How could we make schemes for DVB/ATSC so that were flexible and allowed IPv6 autoconfiguration? - this implied the ability to do flexible IP address to PID and TS-MUX mapping. There was some discussion of the recent draft from DVB "ETSI EN drTS 102 00X V0.4.2 (2002-07) Digital Video Broadcasting (DVB) Specification for IP Notification in DVB Systems Use of the IP/MAC Notification Table" - How general-purpose was this? - Would it scale to large IP edge networks? - How would it relate to the way IP multicast seemed to be going (see discussions about the future of multicast in mboned WG & "draft-ietf-mboned-iesg-gap-analysis-00.txt") Unfortunately few people had access to this document, since it is currently private to DVB members. Those who did have access to the document said they would look at it and see what they thought. The current requirements ID suggested three potential options: (i) Use the SI information for address resolution. (ii) Provide an alternative mechanism at the IP-level - similar to IPv6 ND? (ii) Provide a complementary scheme at the IP-level - similar to IPv6 ND, but able to import information from SI tables (if able to). - Which should be done? - Why? The main challenge was to figure out what ELSE was necessary to make the framework auto-configuartion flexible and IP-friendly. Please send questions and answers on the list. Plans ----- There is now some enthusiasm now to start work on this in 2003, and several promises of contributions (IDs) have been received by Gorry Fairhurst. When we get sufficient Internet Drafts on the table, so we can start doing the real work! Afterwards we adjourned to the "Polaris" bar to literally watch the world spin by... Gorry Fairhurst ip-dvb mailing list. From owner-ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Tue Dec 17 10:38:01 2002 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gBHAbsTV028544 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2002 10:37:54 GMT Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.6/8.12.2/Submit) id gBHAbs0k028543 for ip-dvb-subscribed-users; Tue, 17 Dec 2002 10:37:54 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from network2.cs.usm.my (nrg.cs.usm.my [161.142.8.104]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gBHAbiTV028531 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2002 10:37:45 GMT Received: from cwtan (unknown [161.142.8.113]) by network2.cs.usm.my (Postfix) with SMTP id 11393F3B9 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 2002 18:37:44 +0800 (MYT) From: "Tan Chen Wei" To: Subject: DVB-s transmitter Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 18:35:24 +0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Hi, I am newbies to this group. I wonder if anyone knows where to get DVB-s type of transmitter and it shoud be able to run IP on it. I am trying to shop for one. regards CW From owner-ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Thu Dec 19 12:39:48 2002 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gBJCdZTV009787 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2002 12:39:35 GMT Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.6/8.12.2/Submit) id gBJCdYTK009786 for ip-dvb-subscribed-users; Thu, 19 Dec 2002 12:39:34 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from esacom56-int.estec.esa.int (esacom56-ext.estec.esa.int [131.176.107.3]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gBJCdNTV009773 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2002 12:39:23 GMT Received: from esacom52.estec.esa.int. (esacom52.estec.esa.nl [131.176.7.7]) by esacom56-int.estec.esa.int (8.10.2/8.10.2/ESA-External-v2.0) with ESMTP id gBJCdHL02483 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2002 13:39:17 +0100 (MET) Received: from estecmail4.estec.esa.int (estecmail4.estec.esa.nl [131.176.7.65]) by esacom52.estec.esa.int. (8.9.2/8.9.2/ESA-ESTEC-mail-gw-v1.6) with SMTP id MAA27785 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2002 12:39:17 GMT Received: by estecmail4.estec.esa.int(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.7 (934.1 12-30-1999)) id 41256C94.00456FFF ; Thu, 19 Dec 2002 13:38:26 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: ESA From: Frank.Zeppenfeldt@esa.int To: IP-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Message-ID: <41256C94.00456EDB.00@estecmail4.estec.esa.int> Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 13:39:03 +0100 Subject: Differences between INT and MMT tables for address resolution? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-MailScanner-SpamScore: ss, s Sender: owner-ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Before delving into the DVB archives, does somebody know: a. Where the Multicast Map Table is officially defined ? Is there a DVB reference ? b. What is the relation between the INT (IP/MAC Notification Table) , as defined in ETSI EN Draft 301 192 v1.3.1 (2002-12) ? In addition to offering unicast/MAC streams/platform concept, is it making the MMT obsolete ? Is there a reference to minutes of some DVB meeting that explains the relation between the two ? My understanding is that EN 301 192 v1.3.1 (DVB data broadcasting) document now includes the document referenced in Gorries report from Atlanta (ETSI EN drTS 102 00X V0.4.2 (2002-07) "Specification for IP Notification in DVB Systems Use of the IP/MAC Notification Table"). Regards, Frank From owner-ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Thu Dec 19 16:43:49 2002 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gBJGhbTV015662 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2002 16:43:37 GMT Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.6/8.12.2/Submit) id gBJGhbTA015661 for ip-dvb-subscribed-users; Thu, 19 Dec 2002 16:43:37 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from mgw-x4.nokia.com (mgw-x4.nokia.com [131.228.20.27]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gBJGhRTW015649 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2002 16:43:28 GMT Received: from esvir03nok.nokia.com (esvir03nokt.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.35]) by mgw-x4.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.1/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id gBJGiwt25986 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2002 18:44:58 +0200 (EET) Received: from esebh001.NOE.Nokia.com (unverified) by esvir03nok.nokia.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.5) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2002 18:43:26 +0200 Received: from esebe006.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.46]) by esebh001.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Thu, 19 Dec 2002 18:43:26 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: Differences between INT and MMT tables for address resolution? Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 18:43:26 +0200 Message-ID: <26574F0076BFF449ADAE582D9E67780C0109F11B@esebe006.ntc.nokia.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Differences between INT and MMT tables for address resolution? Thread-Index: AcKnXImbRcqHSJ7sTsms4r5NwceROQAINAwg From: To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Dec 2002 16:43:26.0721 (UTC) FILETIME=[C0CD0F10:01C2A77D] X-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-MailScanner-SpamScore: s, ss Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by erg.abdn.ac.uk id gBJGhaCu015658 Sender: owner-ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Good question, Frank. Indeed, I have not heard of MMT. Perhaps you can enlighten us all! >From my point of view, INT is all that you need. Both unicast and multicast (ASM/ISM and SSM). And for MAC, IPv4 and IPv6. BR, Toni > -----Original Message----- > From: ext Frank.Zeppenfeldt@esa.int [mailto:Frank.Zeppenfeldt@esa.int] > Sent: 19 December, 2002 14:39 > To: IP-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk > Subject: Differences between INT and MMT tables for address > resolution? > > > Before delving into the DVB archives, does somebody know: > > a. Where the Multicast Map Table is officially defined ? Is > there a DVB > reference ? > > b. What is the relation between the INT (IP/MAC Notification > Table) , as > defined in ETSI EN Draft 301 192 v1.3.1 (2002-12) ? In > addition to offering > unicast/MAC streams/platform concept, is it making the MMT > obsolete ? Is > there a reference to minutes of some DVB meeting that > explains the relation > between the two ? > > My understanding is that EN 301 192 v1.3.1 (DVB data > broadcasting) document > now includes the document referenced in Gorries report from > Atlanta (ETSI EN > drTS 102 00X V0.4.2 (2002-07) "Specification for IP > Notification in DVB > Systems Use of the IP/MAC Notification Table"). > > > Regards, Frank > > > > From owner-ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Thu Dec 19 17:35:54 2002 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gBJHZeTV017453 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2002 17:35:40 GMT Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.6/8.12.2/Submit) id gBJHZepp017452 for ip-dvb-subscribed-users; Thu, 19 Dec 2002 17:35:40 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from erg.abdn.ac.uk (gresley.erg.abdn.ac.uk [139.133.207.106]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gBJHZITV017380 for ; Thu, 19 Dec 2002 17:35:18 GMT Message-ID: <3E020357.53787248@erg.abdn.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 17:35:19 +0000 From: Dr G Fairhurst Organization: ERG, Aberdeen, UK X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Subject: Re: Differences between INT and MMT tables for address resolution? References: <26574F0076BFF449ADAE582D9E67780C0109F11B@esebe006.ntc.nokia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk As I recall, and my version of history could be entirely wrong - so I rely on other list members to correct this - in 2000, there were two proposals within the DVB community for study, as possible extensions to DVB-RCS, but sort-of tackling general address resolution issues for multicast over DVB. Both used DVB tables to map IP multicast addresses to a DVB TS. (i) The multicast PID assignment method (MPAM) In MPAM, the receiver is explicitly told in a unicast TIM, which PIDs it must add or remove from its active PID list. (ii) The multicast PID mapping method (MPMM). In MPMM, the multicast group ID, e.g. multicast IP destination address, is mapped to a PID and broadcast in a PID map (MPM) to all receivers. When an end host wishes to join a multicast group, the receiver performs a lookup in the multicast PID mapping information to resolve the group and then to add the TS to its active PID list. In what I saw, neither specified (S,G) information, since the table was simply a list of IP multicast destination addresses, i.e (*,G). Would one of the authors, or people in DVB or RCS-work like to say more??? Gorry toni.paila@nokia.com wrote: > > Good question, Frank. > > Indeed, I have not heard of MMT. Perhaps you can enlighten us all! > > >From my point of view, INT is all that you need. Both unicast and multicast (ASM/ISM and SSM). And for MAC, IPv4 and IPv6. > > BR, > Toni > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ext Frank.Zeppenfeldt@esa.int [mailto:Frank.Zeppenfeldt@esa.int] > > Sent: 19 December, 2002 14:39 > > To: IP-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk > > Subject: Differences between INT and MMT tables for address > > resolution? > > > > > > Before delving into the DVB archives, does somebody know: > > > > a. Where the Multicast Map Table is officially defined ? Is > > there a DVB > > reference ? > > > > b. What is the relation between the INT (IP/MAC Notification > > Table) , as > > defined in ETSI EN Draft 301 192 v1.3.1 (2002-12) ? In > > addition to offering > > unicast/MAC streams/platform concept, is it making the MMT > > obsolete ? Is > > there a reference to minutes of some DVB meeting that > > explains the relation > > between the two ? > > > > My understanding is that EN 301 192 v1.3.1 (DVB data > > broadcasting) document > > now includes the document referenced in Gorries report from > > Atlanta (ETSI EN > > drTS 102 00X V0.4.2 (2002-07) "Specification for IP > > Notification in DVB > > Systems Use of the IP/MAC Notification Table"). > > > > > > Regards, Frank > > > > > > > > From owner-ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Tue Dec 24 14:12:49 2002 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gBOECeAN001830 for ; Tue, 24 Dec 2002 14:12:40 GMT Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.6/8.12.2/Submit) id gBOECeos001829 for ip-dvb-subscribed-users; Tue, 24 Dec 2002 14:12:40 GMT Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 14:12:40 GMT Message-Id: <200212241412.gBOECeos001829@mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk> X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f From: Winkler_Roberto/als_saccomuro@rmmail.alespazio.it Subject: Re: Differences between INT and MMT tables for address resolution? Sender: owner-ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-SpamScore: ss If I may add my two cents (maybe even a bit less),the MPA and MPM tables were originally proposed by Spacebridge in the DVB-RCS contrbution 249 (October 2000). I fully share Mr Zeppenfeldt's need to clarify the current status of standardisation for DVB enhanced tables. The MPM seems to have disappeared, but is its original goal (mapping of IP multicast addresses to PID)fully covered by the INT ? best regards Roberto Roberto WINKLER Senior Network Engineer Alenia Spazio SpA Via G.V.Bona, 85 00156 Rome Italy Tel +39 06 4151494 Fax +39 06 4151297 > > > Frank Zeppenfeldt@ESA > 12/20/2002 08:53 AM > > Some other bit of history that may help: on 21 November 2001 , a > contribution listed as DVB-TM 2576 contained a proposal for an "extension to > the MPE mechanism of EN 301 192", from Astra/France Telecom , presenting > something called the IP Map Table (IMT), which introduced the platform > concept and MAC and uni/multicast addresses. I guess this was the start of > INT. > > Frank > > > > > > From owner-ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Tue Dec 24 14:14:56 2002 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id gBOEEkAN001947 for ; Tue, 24 Dec 2002 14:14:46 GMT Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.6/8.12.2/Submit) id gBOEEkrh001946 for ip-dvb-subscribed-users; Tue, 24 Dec 2002 14:14:46 GMT Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 14:14:46 GMT Message-Id: <200212241414.gBOEEkrh001946@mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk> X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f From: Winkler_Roberto/als_saccomuro@rmmail.alespazio.it Subject: Re: Differences between INT and MMT tables for address resolution? To: ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Sender: owner-ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-SpamScore: s If I may add my two cents (maybe even a bit less),the MPA and MPM tables were originally proposed by Spacebridge in the DVB-RCS contrbution 249 (October 2000). I fully share Mr Zeppenfeldt's need to clarify the current status of standardisation for DVB enhanced tables. The MPM seems to have disappeared, but is its original goal (mapping of IP multicast addresses to PID)fully covered by the INT ? best regards Roberto Roberto WINKLER Senior Network Engineer Alenia Spazio SpA Via G.V.Bona, 85 00156 Rome Italy Tel +39 06 4151494 Fax +39 06 4151297 > > > Frank Zeppenfeldt@ESA > 12/20/2002 08:53 AM > > Some other bit of history that may help: on 21 November 2001 , a > contribution listed as DVB-TM 2576 contained a proposal for an "extension to > the MPE mechanism of EN 301 192", from Astra/France Telecom , presenting > something called the IP Map Table (IMT), which introduced the platform > concept and MAC and uni/multicast addresses. I guess this was the start of > INT. > > Frank > > > > > >