From nobody Mon Jul 17 23:53:12 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 295EB131D0B; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 23:53:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fUlSmeWlkfQe; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 23:53:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C96E127337; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 23:53:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.20] ([93.217.104.20]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx102 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LnlmV-1e7nKH3IYp-00htZr; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 08:52:58 +0200 To: Alexey Melnikov , "ietf@ietf.org" , "json@ietf.org" References: <596CE6E3.3070808@isode.com> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <92698d15-6557-8bb1-aad0-a0965e779e71@gmx.de> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 08:52:55 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <596CE6E3.3070808@isode.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:aECTRTHrNWb703SrRwkLkDAoZ3A+/wPff8hiJBnfPt0c3sUp5Ku 2a4WVS+gUb1H8qhOeemIySdh7lQs+e5PPbS/3Q9o03YP7m+3ViU85976WNqK7Rrjm4pXAiC oFgUrEpfJlREDC4IcF/R1aKWXMowRZQ1mt826Uk7Gyy2JPNGT+R2rdYXAEUezkTVbSkpgb/ HEZJCNZTcnnWDy6tsqukQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:RsNUN4ZRGrc=:QDwkyChM097G+qDs3QtjH3 bTIA9vt3lqif3lSlzQxaoiNq5lmWobnfslrDTRUY9B7nL1p06PgeZjd5kiQI+kpPtLsI0YPl1 OvnPa8emAFhv3hf5XlkdyACW0fednFPvUPrwsOa80UKaNqag/xF+l7oUyrS0T2eMCKR28V3ra xqjafIMCt2XIYykbPNXg65bIUDuejKSakXR9/GgW2CP5qFKAbxpmC+wvB5Qgt772VIkaQNiIN yLg73xGBJotSvjhPXwKzKQj7RFeqP4aM+LXu4/otXlm1opm+OK/WrV4If6rJ0HOaAyyhkDY3r JZ3MXgbk5Cea3EeSlBgktfN4JS0Rx6P00wt4u4pCGqJxExmLgI2Ijq+MAUjAfZvvFr4PIaVdx BZyDiUMoW2qWZuZKcUl9J0W5N1oYCWw5RoPCGVQK3jz3RqOAZNLe+o3OvtZKVuPKGZIYlv+qz eKKEedtIXDVWmneuoi+rjbGNelDH7dvDv6PZz1rTxw9VSrGlxolj7D2L9eTOteEBGTWLLMXeV ia6Rl/Myu9uNyffIga7RVxiY4p/J1N6hRlzrLpoKbzDCOOTi6Ml07SXIKuDSQi/FUoI7nxK1p WYmChhjXaZG12AQiXf8WP76bzKnleJ0890Hn9NXKqRb6Zw7kDfakbBOiXoGkWu8awHWjQAX1P Fzb9cVJfeNUjUMxmu6dxw1d0iEgvtgm8I8vcpGbO0QCgSNTR9Pngvbpx/6y7S1PxlvfVvUwh3 HEQeXqf9tk3zS7+r9ywLsDXK8jUWVfYdWxN8DgjxhLOJBe146Xsm6uWYfpEZuK0bUnoTwyMu4 dfXcwJTWdigIBXN6Un8gDS6acJcNEmA034Q9SRXt44NxVJO/mc= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-03: recommendation to use UTF-8 X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 06:53:04 -0000 On 2017-07-17 18:33, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > Hi, > > The JSONBIS WG decided to update recommendation on Unicode encoding to > be UTF-8. (For details see the RFC Editor's notes in the approval > message that will be sent out shortly.) This took a bit of time to > debate in the WG, so the document approval took a bit longer than > originally expected. > > Best Regards, > Alexey, as the responsible AD The last WG mail related to this topic is over 2 months old, and I don't see any declaration of consensus. It would be good if the chair would send a summary about what's going on to the WG mailing list before anything gets finalized. (I note that has been saying "Revised ID Needed" for 48 days, and I was under the assumption that there'd be indeed a revised ID). Best regards, Julian From nobody Tue Jul 18 00:41:15 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86E56131691; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 00:40:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=isode.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PQr4OiwA_QlC; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 00:40:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from statler.isode.com (Statler.isode.com [62.232.206.189]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC35512ECF0; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 00:40:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1500363654; d=isode.com; s=june2016; i=@isode.com; bh=vwrPx0PSglqewztan7UOZ4G0HnNkzkZ1saXMJ0PrIOQ=; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version: In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description; b=kNLC8/Mvb7U9VlVssxfWPKG5kNplLjSmPwP14RL3IljiqrxRl5qQ6k1OaZJSaS/jBAJmXb 7G26lpaepAD0eDUvLyRXIayJTql5Bz4vVNpaUhnl5w6QJoKLjol1NV6Ydc5qdgigcdfEb1 Ksy69NAEyhmWZvGICoVW5pso+e6Q4is=; Received: from [172.16.18.185] (94.112.246.234.static.b2b.upcbusiness.cz [94.112.246.234]) by statler.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPSA id ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 08:40:53 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov X-Mailer: iPad Mail (14F89) In-Reply-To: <92698d15-6557-8bb1-aad0-a0965e779e71@gmx.de> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 10:05:26 +0200 Cc: "ietf@ietf.org" , "json@ietf.org" Message-Id: <668A56FD-4B89-472C-9E4C-BE5C0E6921F9@isode.com> References: <596CE6E3.3070808@isode.com> <92698d15-6557-8bb1-aad0-a0965e779e71@gmx.de> To: Julian Reschke MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-03: recommendation to use UTF-8 X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 07:40:56 -0000 Hi Julian, > On 18 Jul 2017, at 08:52, Julian Reschke wrote: >=20 >> On 2017-07-17 18:33, Alexey Melnikov wrote: >> Hi, >> The JSONBIS WG decided to update recommendation on Unicode encoding to >> be UTF-8. (For details see the RFC Editor's notes in the approval >> message that will be sent out shortly.) This took a bit of time to >> debate in the WG, so the document approval took a bit longer than >> originally expected. >> Best Regards, >> Alexey, as the responsible AD >=20 > The last WG mail related to this topic is over 2 months old, and I don't s= ee any declaration of consensus. >=20 > It would be good if the chair would send a summary about what's going on t= o the WG mailing list before anything gets finalized. >=20 > (I note that has been saying "Revised ID Needed" for 48 days, and I was under the as= sumption that there'd be indeed a revised ID). I just posted a message on this: this is approved with updated RFC Editor no= tes. See the approval message once it is sent. Best Regards, Alexey= From nobody Tue Jul 18 01:19:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9075131A4F; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 01:19:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wRJ-7RdK-hVS; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 01:19:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D47FB120227; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 01:19:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.34] ([217.91.35.233]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx003 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MQyxa-1d4CmK3G18-00UMyd; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 10:19:06 +0200 To: Alexey Melnikov Cc: "ietf@ietf.org" , "json@ietf.org" References: <596CE6E3.3070808@isode.com> <92698d15-6557-8bb1-aad0-a0965e779e71@gmx.de> <668A56FD-4B89-472C-9E4C-BE5C0E6921F9@isode.com> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <6a42a587-f09c-14bc-847b-7882c8f3e9f7@gmx.de> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 10:19:04 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <668A56FD-4B89-472C-9E4C-BE5C0E6921F9@isode.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:Vkz88uHPQl53S3XzTnq0sE1FUWw6LtvE67N1EvmsJlvI4vco1zH D3gfRJR748p/dhjKomEgySlOXzwWsaFT3poeR9NbAnVVhwQr3r7lbVnLG8Y3eOwqTOXEh8+ OnxDdm0ZqRrgyuPEyVgL23nnmtem1+cZIZcx88QZognSA/Oie61/rtViEU8ED8Uc4AxUk8L HjXWZuex5NDxib2vTy1yw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:s7NM6I86kvQ=:u9FUnhXBkaNtCFAijP1KsB gU6e5DOYxHFf1/TbZMSBxBkOhT+bUbxWvpDE8jIU6H5le+SiBvSzw0kVnufn5veheQrAA13u2 tTZs5bXYx9lx7SfVjW5TP/FTyaM0ETj2l7z75iLEzLddDnAyL4twGoTG+lM2JVDQgZ5N1QACQ BRR11aSqDtO7mksUQTsmwBMU9b7xWatIpRG4DM3ZHQneh05jQwZhHxus+ujPxpzvoxFjDJEX/ Nl4bnvH2RU0zSAvu2tOdhBGhNAqIOv92U+Z0B4HDjWfbcsuBs2Dj0UcSPp86aToYGyTj65Mrt wQeBrhZt28lKplZo9GlmRGZWwQrIhNd3wTRU942lRas1omllp8+d910K9r0welWo9DNdeB8qS F5Hp1g1/vHgvIyygrTwpGvRwyZDMif44B78bfmmMeXPJhl3l4LCUBRlqKM9yDGxxEvNNLy3l5 vVr3FsnFeQ5zDDQbBbofH/MUunSMP+KoJ16aI6q7RdwXNDKzLZuWqRpwsRyUsBh5KpSTbOHIY sseitKFgJSWsu4Eo2T0p+poYXOEMbAo/g5zD/uTD2FvMDGuO5IdadUUN2Ul+yCx3Q4VcI+peN 7D0HZ74G+9jzQ9L1wFqEtZcWOZkmNILkrov1qekSxPsoHUu+gQzZ0PAHniPVwgyThTSca6SnP QmVJyEMlx+M1yUpxaHb6eW9OjdjQFVE0cDcRfV5MtsGtEz1hKCcdZeFgYVwOWGZt3VcgbLUmQ QcBLn9je8bTuBubVfszx2YnewQtxhJSUEuTvUvtOfhQA5M6cKzfMmJnVoT6b80CbNAoRe57wB vphk1oxHobywxXZFCdUOzfrF7Ngad92UjfkRxqFj2z0io5nVfM= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-03: recommendation to use UTF-8 X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 08:19:12 -0000 On 2017-07-18 10:05, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > Hi Julian, > >> On 18 Jul 2017, at 08:52, Julian Reschke wrote: >> >>> On 2017-07-17 18:33, Alexey Melnikov wrote: >>> Hi, >>> The JSONBIS WG decided to update recommendation on Unicode encoding to >>> be UTF-8. (For details see the RFC Editor's notes in the approval >>> message that will be sent out shortly.) This took a bit of time to >>> debate in the WG, so the document approval took a bit longer than >>> originally expected. >>> Best Regards, >>> Alexey, as the responsible AD >> >> The last WG mail related to this topic is over 2 months old, and I don't see any declaration of consensus. >> >> It would be good if the chair would send a summary about what's going on to the WG mailing list before anything gets finalized. >> >> (I note that has been saying "Revised ID Needed" for 48 days, and I was under the assumption that there'd be indeed a revised ID). > > I just posted a message on this: this is approved with updated RFC Editor notes. See the approval message once it is sent. > ... This is not how it's supposed to work. Please have a new I-D posted and get people to review the changes in context. This is a *very* important piece of standards work - we need to make sure it meets quality standards. From a quick glance at , I already note that the appendix "Changes from RFC 7159" is now incomplete. Best regards, Julian From nobody Tue Jul 18 01:27:50 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 587AF131D2B for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 01:27:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.88 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.88 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, MISSING_HEADERS=1.021, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=outer-planes-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XsOHgVhaUSck for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 01:27:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x230.google.com (mail-wr0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 501AB131A69 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 01:27:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x230.google.com with SMTP id w4so17866860wrb.2 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 01:27:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=outer-planes-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=sender:subject:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=SVv9+OXsKQv4SGxulpPKDmypUYfNYvPyDjzR9zWtkIw=; b=m4w0Pcm0qhnPq6GuMqxQPJTu0frrdI9Rvdmg6CpzBbVPVgIMMIuRD86Rgfza8/K/Cn RPSyPIHHt1fW9pgHAirjOC/7YnN0Ww+//RJABxIlfUj9zv7TlJ9EHL9kfs8BvV7EJ44y m3B+7s45H1SQ1UXEM+gTUR2HUmLjG8V2h2ddnMCIn8WM4l+ivO5S7Kl4EVRz2RsiKjdT FgwMaYQAXyMViylZYRpmGcSnpEcBwotQJ4NgQ/obkhZ6G0V0RFrBVEH4w/x4uBGjfMDK DPFEi06BFUm7SdEmjpW/+ByS/4DQ8AwPM01nepYNAsOprUMxDVyIeYRwG4wSXyApLwMW 5+Vg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=SVv9+OXsKQv4SGxulpPKDmypUYfNYvPyDjzR9zWtkIw=; b=GPE4ERKSc5byJ4dmNKI7BdTdkWQGIItpgCj86F6MUoYnnyZUEFfOGpYuJdASJDA1ff A4i5igqHqLHCuqxFRnZaquF0Wbf3gfdwixVPvM2GuutH4gLDkdI1CSqM7npifMgyUeTL LpvouWiL1be1FpHiMXDHZu0nAlh8sxdTh+sjR3koTlVPa8KFCPvTg8h+sTM5mLsWZ0kb /uNh4oxjOVa15NNG5g/HQUzIuZ9thj0eOesdpEe+OBELIrvjcAOA+SLD8FMMWONOC0nA b3rWzuYYKFx6wgg+DtpR/cJmAM/j+uykA1jXkLZ+s7HiMvVrjmbdMysrOYEEMoubIcK4 +JkA== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw111EpEgQmE+PH/qN21QTp3qYEFBB4q9q/2nyHSz9NZrgtII9bAij qChTkf4iM5sND1BJyWCAmQ== X-Received: by 10.28.33.66 with SMTP id h63mr838934wmh.124.1500366465515; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 01:27:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:67c:370:128:2526:a529:43c2:fb61? ([2001:67c:370:128:2526:a529:43c2:fb61]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j31sm876127wre.67.2017.07.18.01.27.44 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 18 Jul 2017 01:27:44 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Matthew Miller Cc: "json@ietf.org" References: <20170417175627.GK23461@localhost> <10B651F1-7FE0-484D-BD2E-FD146BC5FB04@tzi.org> <6eb23f90-6623-7888-bc1c-6640a9dababc@codalogic.com> <61bfad2b-850d-a11f-e80b-d5ed9ccb4dc9@codalogic.com> <08a88696-65ef-da05-0d77-1a07d04ebfc8@outer-planes.net> <6f047d01-ad72-59ab-9d34-20a8177ab3af@outer-planes.net> <44b4523a-5e4b-ccad-af96-931d8b9ad1c2@codalogic.com> From: "Matthew A. Miller" Message-ID: <787b7e15-ea97-b458-c886-d21c4dd02803@outer-planes.net> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 10:27:43 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:54.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/54.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="PpDNJw8fFpkcL9RnhrOqwuB8NxpfNtIiC" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] Call for Consensus: Proposed Text for "8.1 Character Encoding" X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 08:27:49 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --PpDNJw8fFpkcL9RnhrOqwuB8NxpfNtIiC Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="wB1e9XbR3dvsRBIMBmGru7rADS1MqRjL5"; protected-headers="v1" From: "Matthew A. Miller" Cc: "json@ietf.org" Message-ID: <787b7e15-ea97-b458-c886-d21c4dd02803@outer-planes.net> Subject: Re: [Json] Call for Consensus: Proposed Text for "8.1 Character Encoding" References: <40e3207f-e047-c898-1f0c-4422de1d597a@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <1b3ec14a-927a-8d46-e3d3-9807a9588437@outer-planes.net> <20170417175627.GK23461@localhost> <10B651F1-7FE0-484D-BD2E-FD146BC5FB04@tzi.org> <6eb23f90-6623-7888-bc1c-6640a9dababc@codalogic.com> <61bfad2b-850d-a11f-e80b-d5ed9ccb4dc9@codalogic.com> <08a88696-65ef-da05-0d77-1a07d04ebfc8@outer-planes.net> <6f047d01-ad72-59ab-9d34-20a8177ab3af@outer-planes.net> <44b4523a-5e4b-ccad-af96-931d8b9ad1c2@codalogic.com> In-Reply-To: --wB1e9XbR3dvsRBIMBmGru7rADS1MqRjL5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello all, I see consensus for the updated text below. A note to the RFC editor is added to ensure publication does not move forward until section 8.1 is updated, and the change noted in the appendix. """ 8.1. Character Encoding When transmitting over a network protocol, or as a payload of a network protocol intended to be interpreted as part of a protocol, JSON text MUST be encoded in UTF-8 (Section 3 of [UNICODE]). Previous specifications of JSON have not required the use of UTF-8 when transmitting JSON text. However, the vast majority of JSON-based software implementations have chosen to use the UTF-8 encoding, to the extent that it is the only encoding that achieves interoperability. Implementations MUST NOT add a byte order mark (U+FEFF) to the beginning of a networked-transmitted JSON text. In the interests of interoperability, implementations that parse JSON texts MAY ignore the presence of a byte order mark rather than treating it as an error. """ Thank you all that participated in the discussion. - m&m Matthew A. Miller JSONbis Chair --wB1e9XbR3dvsRBIMBmGru7rADS1MqRjL5-- --PpDNJw8fFpkcL9RnhrOqwuB8NxpfNtIiC Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJZbcZ/AAoJEOz0ck4QngW7Z0MH/iBdVVnPh2W5ElBtwE+z89zv vvsUh+HpeRfhOmOXbnRF2MX3svMkNTWn7fD/xwdPYx5XGC/waibkxCMAHhmQVePI 7VT1fd96q9379mrMhTB7m+cMz6o23AqBAJlBxiZNWGjQRKBooMwcGdjccZBFiPOM UYgNhGGvxNqSGGOPOgfR+izTgSDSO4Sb415wzvacFXR+tImVkQrHWSXAnSFWZAgO /wzPX5Xp3i5FhUZ00N2u7HqfDLJ5ZBslEEsJ1Ww4HOw0TI2nR0boAkA11X/z9VNo SjvwxD7aRPnYH5JOOUJ99Ck//0Hsze5rzwGe1+HD6QoRL48bc5WPcsVuMLb09qA= =yzF+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --PpDNJw8fFpkcL9RnhrOqwuB8NxpfNtIiC-- From nobody Tue Jul 18 01:45:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9652131DC2 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 01:45:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=itaoyama.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wN1uwY1GIfqc for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 01:45:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JPN01-TY1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-ty1jpn01on0094.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.93.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 57AE9131DB8 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 01:45:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=itaoyama.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-it-aoyama-ac-jp; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=QfJxCTnATncvaziWR/I5jqoMBu77h9RwQVe3JdldNzg=; b=C232VN6Q1eHGIkgHFGt7lRmKl0bf/bt8XAQEouDzHIbrxzzgbXKeVPKcB8C++jKtQHVX7jaZE16UDcGA+N4tPDlzO5aJfiyEtbWXjIwFSmLKFpYoocSFjZe9suaE7GBzUMGXCsQOsHU9J6mzVZW4vyw/1/ERj2Dmo+rq4iJ8pIA= Authentication-Results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=it.aoyama.ac.jp; Received: from [133.2.210.64] (133.2.210.64) by KAWPR01MB0243.jpnprd01.prod.outlook.com (10.161.28.142) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1261.13; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 08:45:19 +0000 To: "Matthew A. Miller" CC: "json@ietf.org" References: <20170417175627.GK23461@localhost> <10B651F1-7FE0-484D-BD2E-FD146BC5FB04@tzi.org> <6eb23f90-6623-7888-bc1c-6640a9dababc@codalogic.com> <61bfad2b-850d-a11f-e80b-d5ed9ccb4dc9@codalogic.com> <08a88696-65ef-da05-0d77-1a07d04ebfc8@outer-planes.net> <6f047d01-ad72-59ab-9d34-20a8177ab3af@outer-planes.net> <44b4523a-5e4b-ccad-af96-931d8b9ad1c2@codalogic.com> <787b7e15-ea97-b458-c886-d21c4dd02803@outer-planes.net> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Martin_J._D=c3=bcrst?= Organization: Aoyama Gakuin University Message-ID: <2ba363a6-2002-2e16-a3f2-e525ebcc4804@it.aoyama.ac.jp> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 17:45:15 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <787b7e15-ea97-b458-c886-d21c4dd02803@outer-planes.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [133.2.210.64] X-ClientProxiedBy: KAXPR01CA0026.jpnprd01.prod.outlook.com (10.171.237.12) To KAWPR01MB0243.jpnprd01.prod.outlook.com (10.161.28.142) X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 6df68687-0223-4658-f7a4-08d4cdb95230 X-Microsoft-Antispam: UriScan:; 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Ship it. Regards, Martin. On 2017/07/18 17:27, Matthew A. Miller wrote: > Hello all, > > I see consensus for the updated text below. A note to the RFC editor is > added to ensure publication does not move forward until section 8.1 is > updated, and the change noted in the appendix. > > """ > 8.1. Character Encoding > > When transmitting over a network protocol, or as a payload of a > network protocol intended to be interpreted as part of a protocol, > JSON text MUST be encoded in UTF-8 (Section 3 of [UNICODE]). > > Previous specifications of JSON have not required the use of UTF-8 > when transmitting JSON text. However, the vast majority of > JSON-based software implementations have chosen to use the UTF-8 > encoding, to the extent that it is the only encoding that achieves > interoperability. > > Implementations MUST NOT add a byte order mark (U+FEFF) to the > beginning of a networked-transmitted JSON text. In the interests > of interoperability, implementations that parse JSON texts MAY > ignore the presence of a byte order mark rather than treating it > as an error. > """ > > > Thank you all that participated in the discussion. > > - m&m > > Matthew A. Miller > JSONbis Chair From nobody Tue Jul 18 01:47:15 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51815131DB9 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 01:47:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.12 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.12 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g0jfoJRA5ivr for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 01:47:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0919112009C for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 01:47:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.34] ([217.91.35.233]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx001 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MPlY2-1dcLyP3KvC-0052y7; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 10:47:03 +0200 To: "Matthew A. Miller" Cc: "json@ietf.org" References: <20170417175627.GK23461@localhost> <10B651F1-7FE0-484D-BD2E-FD146BC5FB04@tzi.org> <6eb23f90-6623-7888-bc1c-6640a9dababc@codalogic.com> <61bfad2b-850d-a11f-e80b-d5ed9ccb4dc9@codalogic.com> <08a88696-65ef-da05-0d77-1a07d04ebfc8@outer-planes.net> <6f047d01-ad72-59ab-9d34-20a8177ab3af@outer-planes.net> <44b4523a-5e4b-ccad-af96-931d8b9ad1c2@codalogic.com> <787b7e15-ea97-b458-c886-d21c4dd02803@outer-planes.net> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <47640061-e387-ef14-4ed6-c1c203c3c2fb@gmx.de> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 10:47:01 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <787b7e15-ea97-b458-c886-d21c4dd02803@outer-planes.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:S8E3cPjY90NJ9mkwvf8d+fT1uaUqXgCeI6pl4wrbw5oyd7ZF2Qs WCMsqShdZD+qkWGPYpWBr5Nvzy7JDA/P6hrV43TJeiyJIiDYbZ4G7nUnglebnVd9YzRd57s bf5nuk0lroNHRN9ByA1CQ7RoJb/TjLnWffq3iUUXkbR11A5hLd0MUqOWN5xCWhgCaIjDjXe GOOieuPyvZnD+TVCXqX1g== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:MBaNGbuX5rQ=:kZT9kohu+08v5qLhZtEYJo pX/bZsPod55zZQcp5w9wkbELrhnZPnC7obspUFKs34zlxatG7eo3ccAjgj2c6/ok8UjXBZBNE rUtk1OYOA+OHmfVGas4TTndf8JTYiZgnVahRaPIu8Nt65OvzOjeCzP4eNxQVss4qKLoGs9WHG gVPe78c7yVGxT/i2sbWegte+R4NKnmUt5iMoRFZsStMO4BWpSA6yUoWimPYVNteCh7tPAOdCz Hp49Y7TgJ4Acal3vDS3A2dwCdBMKZtFF0Q4xxrPCnCUIlQxWHOvUcNcdxMiiuQGA0rgZ9r9gg bi17VzNQ1XdeMkoGhQpej10KhtaAwXkeCVoAYvvhHYbyGZpkfal4xDFrZt6IK/37nn2fhtGw6 9SGkSbnZozCB5YVurvCFdak/T2LuikrGaNduB9vwEdILhFVg9bIJCPnHktCfvH2eGb0dEQpmH Gh/MeZavEuccstQOOIO3ox++jBlRtRCuGBmlQddLBuH0sV9KxJ1jTLVsCnUA+3D+Zmjoow8dE Ep9V59rQ7wYL6Gto6w4fRl6q5bxKGTaHfv3ajo2LI+Yf1FzR/R/qr0XmEGpJZYKneI3ueoGcV 1V6buLzYtbeHTq25Pf15nP/u78CT0bwD9ZYdf46y3PMHshJBoKjRVxwCHNbi24I6LoEZ47Ffq VuyMamYYd64mmY3bT5GcWkFwCUbOgCK1ZPPEV1hLtsEI68nvAbW9psgRGl6nErHm5VfTkErSX kZBzLeG6E6BOky//rh0Ro05jMU53I1zTbO01g1j7SY09HTUZdxRSueonwC9FXQQ0XTUolkUui /UyftSWvISqvkKBHg5XYmkG01ioNbsCFG127x75VQSynXxtHh0= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] Call for Consensus: Proposed Text for "8.1 Character Encoding" X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 08:47:13 -0000 On 2017-07-18 10:27, Matthew A. Miller wrote: > Hello all, > > I see consensus for the updated text below. A note to the RFC editor is > added to ensure publication does not move forward until section 8.1 is > updated, and the change noted in the appendix. > ... 1) I'm OK with the change. 2) I'm *not* OK with the way it's being executed: - there should have been a new Internet Draft to review - we are making an important normative change (that can make existing usages of JSON non-compliant) without getting IETF consensus for that change - we're putting the RFC Production Center in charge to maintain our text (because the note to the RFC Editor does not say what to put into Appendix A) Best regards, Julian From nobody Tue Jul 18 02:34:11 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36384131A67 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 02:34:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.72 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.72 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fastmail.fm header.b=Hu4n2IFl; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=JHwiTC6H Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zqRPR49arGhe for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 02:34:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com (out1-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DF05C131945 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 02:34:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A1F220BD2; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 05:34:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web6 ([10.202.2.216]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 18 Jul 2017 05:34:07 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.fm; h= cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=FZgIC/SxHidJBJB7pKfY29mFNKu5V gVlg3K6M390MqE=; b=Hu4n2IFlxPnpfs95hsamzyH5XGeQHLJu7+WAcMzqGRVeG w5IOdmKyWg3Xy8aUy27iKa6ro12L6BXws4tRLNIOEX3Uhi/jbrWq7g5b3+6YtfHb JkpyAiIRxvuUghQ0zUlCPUkOOpJWNcg+GNffbCu6V0zI4PD/fov8hevk9l0yXvzg ToXNm8wcF4gnfoRMrpPLn2FhvdP0GjzwxkSJ55t+yPWYIc5I0dFAvgLqNFTBisxy qXEBHBoQ7MXKMqFoQLDnfR8ImGgL7FWF5Y/FMMmQxL5RFFf4JQGx89FQhs3fDCI6 E12hWh1fw2PA+GthkKRiV5ZxqOFkibfzD+3E1VkVg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=FZgIC/ SxHidJBJB7pKfY29mFNKu5VgVlg3K6M390MqE=; b=JHwiTC6HDMksGa7oht/wgU yJrc3NHUfm+0QzyMazFfjcV+ZoU6WNzo9IQR6wNUIGeDcdi1B2zKiBxvkOjbQp2o ayTxEBsyxn6kfkLvM6Owt+aibojQv7RUPK6VBP9LqR3o9+r49BQCwdI0aIbN5OEW ey/Egtul9k268qPvJHbZWLmY5VGCPquyOUDYmJZKb1d8gpw2MILSQ4EmIIJwHwQQ hxCkRoGjAChrkZZoZ34nnafOjY9b9afU8LdZmS31JL933F40eJqYfdTI1s6HKgoh jYuzMo81hv3T7T3AEKaT5LwXHmxQfdG42+2ObZqxDS831BBGQ3KOWUWkjYWiJ/NQ == X-ME-Sender: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 99) id 3AD7848001; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 05:34:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1500370447.565092.1044410712.5AAE5B7E@webmail.messagingengine.com> From: Alexey Melnikov To: Julian Reschke , "Matthew A. Miller" Cc: json@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface - ajax-b8c51eee Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 10:34:07 +0100 In-Reply-To: <47640061-e387-ef14-4ed6-c1c203c3c2fb@gmx.de> References: <20170417175627.GK23461@localhost> <10B651F1-7FE0-484D-BD2E-FD146BC5FB04@tzi.org> <6eb23f90-6623-7888-bc1c-6640a9dababc@codalogic.com> <61bfad2b-850d-a11f-e80b-d5ed9ccb4dc9@codalogic.com> <08a88696-65ef-da05-0d77-1a07d04ebfc8@outer-planes.net> <6f047d01-ad72-59ab-9d34-20a8177ab3af@outer-planes.net> <44b4523a-5e4b-ccad-af96-931d8b9ad1c2@codalogic.com> <787b7e15-ea97-b458-c886-d21c4dd02803@outer-planes.net> <47640061-e387-ef14-4ed6-c1c203c3c2fb@gmx.de> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] Call for Consensus: Proposed Text for "8.1 Character Encoding" X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 09:34:09 -0000 Hi Julian, On Tue, Jul 18, 2017, at 09:47 AM, Julian Reschke wrote: > On 2017-07-18 10:27, Matthew A. Miller wrote: > > Hello all, > > > > I see consensus for the updated text below. A note to the RFC editor is > > added to ensure publication does not move forward until section 8.1 is > > updated, and the change noted in the appendix. > > ... > > 1) I'm OK with the change. > > 2) I'm *not* OK with the way it's being executed: > > - there should have been a new Internet Draft to review > > - we are making an important normative change (that can make existing > usages of JSON non-compliant) without getting IETF consensus for that > change > > - we're putting the RFC Production Center in charge to maintain our text > (because the note to the RFC Editor does not say what to put into > Appendix A) I added a note for Appendix A. If people want to wordsmith it, it is not too late for that. From nobody Tue Jul 18 02:41:34 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3DA0131A67 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 02:41:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.92 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.92 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.982, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EI0gI4M9TFJd for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 02:41:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ppsa-online.com (lvps217-199-162-192.vps.webfusion.co.uk [217.199.162.192]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D2EEB131DD1 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 02:41:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 24107 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2017 10:33:12 +0100 Received: from host109-155-118-120.range109-155.btcentralplus.com (HELO ?192.168.1.72?) (109.155.118.120) by lvps217-199-162-217.vps.webfusion.co.uk with ESMTPSA (DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA encrypted, authenticated); 18 Jul 2017 10:33:12 +0100 To: "Matthew A. Miller" Cc: "json@ietf.org" References: <20170417175627.GK23461@localhost> <10B651F1-7FE0-484D-BD2E-FD146BC5FB04@tzi.org> <6eb23f90-6623-7888-bc1c-6640a9dababc@codalogic.com> <61bfad2b-850d-a11f-e80b-d5ed9ccb4dc9@codalogic.com> <08a88696-65ef-da05-0d77-1a07d04ebfc8@outer-planes.net> <6f047d01-ad72-59ab-9d34-20a8177ab3af@outer-planes.net> <44b4523a-5e4b-ccad-af96-931d8b9ad1c2@codalogic.com> <787b7e15-ea97-b458-c886-d21c4dd02803@outer-planes.net> From: Pete Cordell Message-ID: <9af0048b-8254-a651-3653-069503d6f0a8@codalogic.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 10:41:25 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <787b7e15-ea97-b458-c886-d21c4dd02803@outer-planes.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] Call for Consensus: Proposed Text for "8.1 Character Encoding" X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 09:41:33 -0000 On 18/07/2017 09:27, Matthew A. Miller wrote: > Hello all, > > I see consensus for the updated text below. A note to the RFC editor is > added to ensure publication does not move forward until section 8.1 is > updated, and the change noted in the appendix. > > """ > 8.1. Character Encoding > > When transmitting over a network protocol, or as a payload of a > network protocol intended to be interpreted as part of a protocol, > JSON text MUST be encoded in UTF-8 (Section 3 of [UNICODE]). I struggle here with "over a network protocol". Perhaps we have a different idea of what "over a network protocol" means, but these days everything goes over a network protocol at some point in my mind. Here's another stab at some wording in place of the first proposed paragraph: When transmitted as part of an IETF defined protocol, JSON text MUST be encoded in UTF-8 (Section 3 of [UNICODE]). Protocols defined outside the IETF are strongly encouraged to adopt a similar "MUST be encoded in UTF-8" requirement, but mandating this recommendation is beyond the scope of this specification. Regards, Pete Cordell Codalogic Ltd C++ tools for C++ programmers, http://codalogic.com Read & write XML in C++, http://www.xml2cpp.com From nobody Tue Jul 18 03:34:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4505F131DE8 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 03:34:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.879 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.879 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_FILL_THIS_FORM_SHORT=0.01, T_HTML_ATTACH=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e7cLNry1HAz9 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 03:33:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F258D1270B4 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 03:33:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.34] ([217.91.35.233]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx002 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MU11l-1d6dmI0vdB-00QkJY for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 12:33:51 +0200 To: "json@ietf.org" From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 12:33:48 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------74FA05C81F64E881EE407D7E" Content-Language: en-US X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:NwYD9rviLCoHCH1XFasyrybGu26Pi2nMlb5PPMgwDVfm6uRuqdG QPU984Pp/e9lauANIeWVaa290C3v7ul1Y07KEktv9k8H8zBCY9DvmxV94eHdwkzSBVUmPjL QVk3YeGuSKyr4rgj0g7hX21hUExpK8XOIraAFyWOlruHFrbcgRTsUDw4OnMwJHOX4yh7Pcq bld9jdNqKNP8tFZc2xNcg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:uqsVTqF/3Bw=:e1WJGsC8u8zeOEZLt9UT82 VZ5BdQaClFta7lQ37NIbdzz/olJiODjTlP9TeYxqmkuYmRyTCuGKNt8+cUh2M8JHTf4YTI3JH Bw/2MtC6HH9P6Oeskii6LbiZxi26+XG9xgohgndLR0ftzwRqumrJXwF5DXKpn1DJUjc2bYpfa 2reace9bEG3PQ/+VNJtX69L025AXFsYX63Ov3rXdObB0FAHtGUlkrbLGQz/a2+6LSdaaXAX0G 6LnP53WgKQO6/BrSam6h+JFX/zSARS19A7KjGqmhxEj5eHaVJsS2DsTL37QRJXnLmMsrnFgOk 9kbP0VXRxcAhQSMrhKIJdc50dvnhEQO6VkWxX3CtM63mqPAtdk8q38LCMQUBWaAEIZAwrxrHP HAq3nkNzUN6ad9BfSVj8LbGDFzLTiFVgNfSGJIuoBsDxDV0CiqtWSn0xvvAGHLUjLbEsteIIp Kjh2cTzLOryHQQtYLVp+I+5xLLivlH8FYO8YF0umcj3wU+wQ1FAmGsCqmyu4qTe162HfaMn5r v9/sNpWZibAb3/kTrB6SA5rG01lmOw+mjSXbuQcMnYhrKuEI+mx83fshNRU6D2KxNnI915DoL PtQAI5WnXQlxmSekLC5f8lAzZA86ys+VbqJ/GL32qzpnG/zfG23z0YNAu18WhF3KgBHE9DHxR qYXuaDzGZtky5iEq2LkW7JcxaXjfFjG3nL7E8VBOC0w+/yUphcD5qStK+ThPxJ3k0umnDZX6q pNPnsFmwYzfFQ3nqX9CZe0NSTFVhvIS6j7V9eeaoG4vnWFmNx4tzbRulzLYD+24MARCxhJehM PE/vDzq2AeN/3Xn4tw1ePI+eZ99dQ== Archived-At: Subject: [Json] Proposed changes for -03 based on IESG RFC Editor note X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 10:34:00 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------74FA05C81F64E881EE407D7E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Attached: - diffs for the XML source - TXT output - HTML diffs - source Addresses: - the change in 8.1 - the fix to the boilerplate - broken metadata (invisible in txt output) - updates the changelog - updates Errata entries to the format defined in draft-flanagan-7322bis-01 - adds types to the artwork (for automatic ABNF extraction) - avoids using hardwired section numbers in the changelog where possible Best regards, Julian --------------74FA05C81F64E881EE407D7E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; name="draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-latest.txt" 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tbray@textuality.com
Applications and Real-Time JSON JavaScript Object Notation (JSON) is a lightweight, text-based, language-independent data interchange format. It was derived from the ECMAScript Programming Language Standard. JSON defines a small set of formatting rules for the portable representation of structured data. This document removes inconsistencies with other specifications of JSON, repairs specification errors, and offers experience-based interoperability guidance.
JavaScript Object Notation (JSON) is a text format for the serialization of structured data. It is derived from the object literals of JavaScript, as defined in the ECMAScript Programming Language Standard, Third Edition . JSON can represent four primitive types (strings, numbers, booleans, and null) and two structured types (objects and arrays). A string is a sequence of zero or more Unicode characters . Note that this citation references the latest version of Unicode rather than a specific release. It is not expected that future changes in the UNICODE specification will impact the syntax of JSON. An object is an unordered collection of zero or more name/value pairs, where a name is a string and a value is a string, number, boolean, null, object, or array. An array is an ordered sequence of zero or more values. The terms "object" and "array" come from the conventions of JavaScript. JSON's design goals were for it to be minimal, portable, textual, and a subset of JavaScript.
The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in . The grammatical rules in this document are to be interpreted as described in .
This document updates , which describes JSON and registers the media type "application/json". JSON is also described in . The reference to ECMA-404 in the previous sentence is normative, not with the usual meaning that implementors need to consult it in order to understand this document, but to emphasize that there are no inconsistencies in the definition of the term "JSON text" in any of its specifications. Note, however, that ECMA-404 allows several practices which this specification recommends avoiding in the interests of maximal interoperability. The intent is that the grammar is the same between the two documents, although different descriptions are used. If there a difference is found between them, ECMA and the IETF will work together to update both documents. If an error is found with either document, the other should be examined to see if it has a similar error, and fixed if possible. If either document is changed in the future, ECMA and the IETF will work together to ensure that the two documents stay aligned through the change.
In the years since the publication of RFC 4627, JSON has found very wide use. This experience has revealed certain patterns, which, while allowed by its specifications, have caused interoperability problems. Also, a small number of errata have been reported to RFC4627 (see RFC Errata IDs 607 and 3607 ) and to RFC7159 (see RFC Errata IDs , , and ). This document's goal is to apply the errata, remove inconsistencies with other specifications of JSON, and highlight practices that can lead to interoperability problems.
A JSON text is a sequence of tokens. The set of tokens includes six structural characters, strings, numbers, and three literal names. A JSON text is a serialized value. Note that certain previous specifications of JSON constrained a JSON text to be an object or an array. Implementations that generate only objects or arrays where a JSON text is called for will be interoperable in the sense that all implementations will accept these as conforming JSON texts.
JSON-text = ws value ws
These are the six structural characters:
begin-array = ws %x5B ws ; [ left square bracket begin-object = ws %x7B ws ; { left curly bracket end-array = ws %x5D ws ; ] right square bracket end-object = ws %x7D ws ; } right curly bracket name-separator = ws %x3A ws ; : colon value-separator = ws %x2C ws ; , comma
Insignificant whitespace is allowed before or after any of the six structural characters.
ws = *( %x20 / ; Space %x09 / ; Horizontal tab %x0A / ; Line feed or New line %x0D ) ; Carriage return
A JSON value MUST be an object, array, number, or string, or one of the following three literal names:
false null true
The literal names MUST be lowercase. No other literal names are allowed.
value = false / null / true / object / array / number / string false = %x66.61.6c.73.65 ; false null = %x6e.75.6c.6c ; null true = %x74.72.75.65 ; true
An object structure is represented as a pair of curly brackets surrounding zero or more name/value pairs (or members). A name is a string. A single colon comes after each name, separating the name from the value. A single comma separates a value from a following name. The names within an object SHOULD be unique.
object = begin-object [ member *( value-separator member ) ] end-object member = string name-separator value
An object whose names are all unique is interoperable in the sense that all software implementations receiving that object will agree on the name-value mappings. When the names within an object are not unique, the behavior of software that receives such an object is unpredictable. Many implementations report the last name/value pair only. Other implementations report an error or fail to parse the object, and some implementations report all of the name/value pairs, including duplicates. JSON parsing libraries have been observed to differ as to whether or not they make the ordering of object members visible to calling software. Implementations whose behavior does not depend on member ordering will be interoperable in the sense that they will not be affected by these differences.
An array structure is represented as square brackets surrounding zero or more values (or elements). Elements are separated by commas.
array = begin-array [ value *( value-separator value ) ] end-array
There is no requirement that the values in an array be of the same type.
The representation of numbers is similar to that used in most programming languages. A number is represented in base 10 using decimal digits. It contains an integer component that may be prefixed with an optional minus sign, which may be followed by a fraction part and/or an exponent part. Leading zeros are not allowed. A fraction part is a decimal point followed by one or more digits. An exponent part begins with the letter E in upper or lower case, which may be followed by a plus or minus sign. The E and optional sign are followed by one or more digits. Numeric values that cannot be represented in the grammar below (such as Infinity and NaN) are not permitted.
number = [ minus ] int [ frac ] [ exp ] decimal-point = %x2E ; . digit1-9 = %x31-39 ; 1-9 e = %x65 / %x45 ; e E exp = e [ minus / plus ] 1*DIGIT frac = decimal-point 1*DIGIT int = zero / ( digit1-9 *DIGIT ) minus = %x2D ; - plus = %x2B ; + zero = %x30 ; 0
This specification allows implementations to set limits on the range and precision of numbers accepted. Since software that implements IEEE 754-2008 binary64 (double precision) numbers is generally available and widely used, good interoperability can be achieved by implementations that expect no more precision or range than these provide, in the sense that implementations will approximate JSON numbers within the expected precision. A JSON number such as 1E400 or 3.141592653589793238462643383279 may indicate potential interoperability problems, since it suggests that the software that created it expects receiving software to have greater capabilities for numeric magnitude and precision than is widely available. Note that when such software is used, numbers that are integers and are in the range [-(2**53)+1, (2**53)-1] are interoperable in the sense that implementations will agree exactly on their numeric values.
The representation of strings is similar to conventions used in the C family of programming languages. A string begins and ends with quotation marks. All Unicode characters may be placed within the quotation marks, except for the characters that must be escaped: quotation mark, reverse solidus, and the control characters (U+0000 through U+001F). Any character may be escaped. If the character is in the Basic Multilingual Plane (U+0000 through U+FFFF), then it may be represented as a six-character sequence: a reverse solidus, followed by the lowercase letter u, followed by four hexadecimal digits that encode the character's code point. The hexadecimal letters A though F can be upper or lower case. So, for example, a string containing only a single reverse solidus character may be represented as "\u005C". Alternatively, there are two-character sequence escape representations of some popular characters. So, for example, a string containing only a single reverse solidus character may be represented more compactly as "\\". To escape an extended character that is not in the Basic Multilingual Plane, the character is represented as a 12-character sequence, encoding the UTF-16 surrogate pair. So, for example, a string containing only the G clef character (U+1D11E) may be represented as "\uD834\uDD1E".
string = quotation-mark *char quotation-mark char = unescaped / escape ( %x22 / ; " quotation mark U+0022 %x5C / ; \ reverse solidus U+005C %x2F / ; / solidus U+002F %x62 / ; b backspace U+0008 %x66 / ; f form feed U+000C %x6E / ; n line feed U+000A %x72 / ; r carriage return U+000D %x74 / ; t tab U+0009 %x75 4HEXDIG ) ; uXXXX U+XXXX escape = %x5C ; \ quotation-mark = %x22 ; " unescaped = %x20-21 / %x23-5B / %x5D-10FFFF
When transmitting over a network protocol, or as a payload of a network protocol intended to be interpreted as part of a protocol, JSON text MUST be encoded in UTF-8 (Section 3 of ). Previous specifications of JSON have not required the use of UTF-8 when transmitting JSON text. However, the vast majority of JSON-based software implementations have chosen to use the UTF-8 encoding, to the extent that it is the only encoding that achieves interoperability. Implementations MUST NOT add a byte order mark (U+FEFF) to the beginning of a networked-transmitted JSON text. In the interests of interoperability, implementations that parse JSON texts MAY ignore the presence of a byte order mark rather than treating it as an error.
When all the strings represented in a JSON text are composed entirely of Unicode characters (however escaped), then that JSON text is interoperable in the sense that all software implementations that parse it will agree on the contents of names and of string values in objects and arrays. However, the ABNF in this specification allows member names and string values to contain bit sequences that cannot encode Unicode characters; for example, "\uDEAD" (a single unpaired UTF-16 surrogate). Instances of this have been observed, for example, when a library truncates a UTF-16 string without checking whether the truncation split a surrogate pair. The behavior of software that receives JSON texts containing such values is unpredictable; for example, implementations might return different values for the length of a string value or even suffer fatal runtime exceptions.
Software implementations are typically required to test names of object members for equality. Implementations that transform the textual representation into sequences of Unicode code units and then perform the comparison numerically, code unit by code unit, are interoperable in the sense that implementations will agree in all cases on equality or inequality of two strings. For example, implementations that compare strings with escaped characters unconverted may incorrectly find that "a\\b" and "a\u005Cb" are not equal.
A JSON parser transforms a JSON text into another representation. A JSON parser MUST accept all texts that conform to the JSON grammar. A JSON parser MAY accept non-JSON forms or extensions. An implementation may set limits on the size of texts that it accepts. An implementation may set limits on the maximum depth of nesting. An implementation may set limits on the range and precision of numbers. An implementation may set limits on the length and character contents of strings.
A JSON generator produces JSON text. The resulting text MUST strictly conform to the JSON grammar.
The MIME media type for JSON text is application/json. application json n/a n/a binary See [THIS DOC], Section 12. Described in [THIS DOC] [THIS DOC] JSON has been used to exchange data between applications written in all of these programming languages: ActionScript, C, C#, Clojure, ColdFusion, Common Lisp, E, Erlang, Go, Java, JavaScript, Lua, Objective CAML, Perl, PHP, Python, Rebol, Ruby, Scala, and Scheme. Magic number(s): n/a File extension(s): .json Macintosh file type code(s): TEXT IESG <iesg@ietf.org> COMMON none Douglas Crockford <douglas@crockford.com> IESG <iesg@ietf.org> No "charset" parameter is defined for this registration. Adding one really has no effect on compliant recipients.
Generally, there are security issues with scripting languages. JSON is a subset of JavaScript but excludes assignment and invocation. Since JSON's syntax is borrowed from JavaScript, it is possible to use that language's "eval()" function to parse most JSON texts (but not all; certain characters such as U+2028 LINE SEPARATOR and U+2029 PARAGRAPH SEPARATOR are legal in JSON but not JavaScript). This generally constitutes an unacceptable security risk, since the text could contain executable code along with data declarations. The same consideration applies to the use of eval()-like functions in any other programming language in which JSON texts conform to that language's syntax.
This is a JSON object:
{ "Image": { "Width": 800, "Height": 600, "Title": "View from 15th Floor", "Thumbnail": { "Url": "http://www.example.com/image/481989943", "Height": 125, "Width": 100 }, "Animated" : false, "IDs": [116, 943, 234, 38793] } }
Its Image member is an object whose Thumbnail member is an object and whose IDs member is an array of numbers. This is a JSON array containing two objects:
[ { "precision": "zip", "Latitude": 37.7668, "Longitude": -122.3959, "Address": "", "City": "SAN FRANCISCO", "State": "CA", "Zip": "94107", "Country": "US" }, { "precision": "zip", "Latitude": 37.371991, "Longitude": -122.026020, "Address": "", "City": "SUNNYVALE", "State": "CA", "Zip": "94085", "Country": "US" } ]
Here are three small JSON texts containing only values:
"Hello world!" 42 true
RFC 4627 was written by Douglas Crockford. This document was constructed by making a relatively small number of changes to that document; thus, the vast majority of the text here is his.
IEEE Standard for Floating-Point Arithmetic IEEE
&rfc2119; &rfc5234; The Unicode Standard The Unicode Consortium
The JSON Data Interchange Format Ecma International
&rfc4627; ECMAScript Language Specification, Third Edition Ecma International
Errata ID 607 RFC Errata Errata ID 3607 RFC Errata Errata ID 7159 RFC Errata Errata ID 7159 RFC Errata Errata ID 7159 RFC Errata
This section lists changes between this document and the text in RFC RFC7159. has been updated to reflect the removal of a JSON specification from ECMA-262, to make the reference to ECMA-404 normative, and to explain the particular meaning of "normative". has been updated to reflect errata filed against RFC7159, not RFC4627. was changed to require the use of UTF-8 when transmitted over a network. has been updated to increase the precision of the description of the security risk that follows from using the ECMAScript "eval()" function. Section 15.1 has been updated to include ECMA 404 as a normative reference. Section 15.2 has been updated to remove ECMA 404, update the version of ECMA-262, and refresh the errata list.
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linuxwolf+ietf@outer-planes.net, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <150037529132.11296.5503906459133767416.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 03:54:51 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Json] Protocol Action: 'The JavaScript Object Notation (JSON) Data Interchange Format' to Internet Standard (draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-03.txt) X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 10:54:51 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'The JavaScript Object Notation (JSON) Data Interchange Format' (draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-03.txt) as Internet Standard This document is the product of the Javascript Object Notation Update Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Adam Roach, Alexey Melnikov and Ben Campbell. A URL of this Internet Draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis/ Technical Summary This document is an update to RFC 7159 to promote the JSON format to Internet Standard. In promoting to Internet Standard, this document is a minimal update to RFC 7159 to apply accepted errata and to normatively reference ECMA-404. Working Group Summary This document had numerous reviews, drawn out over several months. While no new technical concerns were raised, the consensus on this document is rough due to the unique nature of the normative reference to ECMA-404. It is not strictly necessary to understand ECMA-404 to implement JSON; rather the reference is an agreement with Ecma TC39 to agree on a single shared definition of JSON. Document Quality JSON is widely used and there are multiple implementations. Personnel Matthew Miller is the document shepherd. Alexey Melnikov is the responsible AD. RFC Editor Note 1) OLD: (In the header) Obsoletes: 4627, 7158, 7159 (if approved) NEW: Obsoletes: 7159 (if approved) 2) Reference to ECMA-262: The reference to "ECMAScript Language Specification, Third Edition" [ECMA-262] is intentional. While newer versions exist at the time of this document's publication, this specific version of ECMA-262 illustrates the history of the JSON data format. 3) Errata References The text for the following errata references need to be updated to correctly describe the specific erratum; the authors and chairs were not able to determine how to accomplish that with the existing tooling: * [Err3915] RFC Errata, "Errata ID 3915", RFC 7159, * [Err4264] RFC Errata, "Errata ID 4264", RFC 7159, * [Err4336] RFC Errata, "Errata ID 4336", RFC 7159, 4). Please replace the whole section 8.1 to read: OLD: JSON text SHALL be encoded in UTF-8, UTF-16, or UTF-32 [UNICODE] (Section 3). The default encoding is UTF-8, and JSON texts that are encoded in UTF-8 are interoperable in the sense that they will be read successfully by the maximum number of implementations; there are many implementations that cannot successfully read texts in other encodings (such as UTF-16 and UTF-32). Implementations MUST NOT add a byte order mark (U+FEFF) to the beginning of a JSON text. In the interests of interoperability, implementations that parse JSON texts MAY ignore the presence of a byte order mark rather than treating it as an error. NEW: When transmitting over a network protocol, or as a payload of a network protocol intended to be interpreted as part of a protocol, JSON text MUST be encoded in UTF-8 (Section 3 of [UNICODE]). Previous specifications of JSON have not required the use of UTF-8 when transmitting JSON text. However, the vast majority of JSON-based software implementations have chosen to use the UTF-8 encoding, to the extent that it is the only encoding that achieves interoperability. Implementations MUST NOT add a byte order mark (U+FEFF) to the beginning of a networked-transmitted JSON text. In the interests of interoperability, implementations that parse JSON texts MAY ignore the presence of a byte order mark rather than treating it as an error. 5) Please add the following to the "Appendix A. Changes from RFC 7159": Recommendations about recommended charset for JSON was changed to UTF-8. From nobody Tue Jul 18 04:04:42 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E5C11252BA; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 04:04:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z5YuLtfqDTMR; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 04:04:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x232.google.com (mail-qt0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D973129459; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 04:04:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x232.google.com with SMTP id 32so12632669qtv.1; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 04:04:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=9lK/fkfLUH+Iwx9t6xjmrRrnIOTGAQLYFEamncUknlA=; b=MosNaGM7L9E0mPRzhfmbdwUX7hxu4C20sGGTTkNEa0hz7X70Jcjb6WNbkXBw9YcpDw H0jTbTOUm5OisV5vcrzkT7nzXAFGwqlhwXVXyjl5PizxsOggtB52ei20e1t2DlIz+tfQ 28/jq6i3wG0Qby80y7qhbN1oXB03jUj528AVoPhbaoK+Z10i9vv86cilK1nrBN0uUjWy O/fYZ0ZqUvs3oQImGcyO/flHaWJP02dD9yV9gkM/L/XhFA4q7KNg2uSJbZ+3wBb+ylSq GQt5B4dNpWllKp2FOvSKI49on0nSZuiYjsFnf+2xyZMlvm7P5Dym8YsmhqfY56FCZVdG wzoQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=9lK/fkfLUH+Iwx9t6xjmrRrnIOTGAQLYFEamncUknlA=; b=hprkYmErTgdcEGlZWZzm3Y1a+8nUBtoLYOOoeQUYHiJ6nXUKg5FiRF1okxmO9700wk bEIDeeWq1gkyW3TgWL8D/tY+s6K/cBEKkK+nzih2mTC6H3k3neGX7tsK64h7yXyDxsSh 2o1O8YhhbVfOBLQ1gcHjR9QTweihP/cu0FuLXktBEGP0jBnXujVhUoWGe2cz+Jj0wbvm 4yXgNNB7cXWq9dsxZsBONgVEJscowf4EHtkl+nF0CvIpQpstSNjP/FiyjEh3S7FaDxWF r3XD9WRIxH7kudWs+gdDM/4n1AfSm/aM4F06dwcg5KPepoS6Fq+dbWLhqVZk2x+L4bbR RzuQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw111dG2se8xrXKoLpksM3jRzYmpYpcybSDzbmvZjS16JcDMvpeqUE t0rataLVYkmM91E2fucmp+lEK79ACw== X-Received: by 10.237.44.225 with SMTP id g88mr1165391qtd.150.1500375872539; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 04:04:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: barryleiba.mailing.lists@gmail.com Received: by 10.200.37.40 with HTTP; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 04:04:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <6a42a587-f09c-14bc-847b-7882c8f3e9f7@gmx.de> References: <596CE6E3.3070808@isode.com> <92698d15-6557-8bb1-aad0-a0965e779e71@gmx.de> <668A56FD-4B89-472C-9E4C-BE5C0E6921F9@isode.com> <6a42a587-f09c-14bc-847b-7882c8f3e9f7@gmx.de> From: Barry Leiba Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 13:04:32 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: GsoTXo3Hr3jvtx6EYYFqN4mN-yI Message-ID: To: Julian Reschke Cc: Alexey Melnikov , "ietf@ietf.org" , "json@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-03: recommendation to use UTF-8 X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 11:04:35 -0000 I have to agree with Julian here: this is not a change that's appropriate to do in an RFC Editor note. The change is probably fine, but draft revisions are cheap and it's easy enough to post a revised I-D to make sure we can all see the final version in context. Thanks, Barry On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 10:19 AM, Julian Reschke wrote: > On 2017-07-18 10:05, Alexey Melnikov wrote: >> >> Hi Julian, >> >>> On 18 Jul 2017, at 08:52, Julian Reschke wrote: >>> >>>> On 2017-07-17 18:33, Alexey Melnikov wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> The JSONBIS WG decided to update recommendation on Unicode encoding to >>>> be UTF-8. (For details see the RFC Editor's notes in the approval >>>> message that will be sent out shortly.) This took a bit of time to >>>> debate in the WG, so the document approval took a bit longer than >>>> originally expected. >>>> Best Regards, >>>> Alexey, as the responsible AD >>> >>> >>> The last WG mail related to this topic is over 2 months old, and I don't >>> see any declaration of consensus. >>> >>> It would be good if the chair would send a summary about what's going on >>> to the WG mailing list before anything gets finalized. >>> >>> (I note that >>> has been >>> saying "Revised ID Needed" for 48 days, and I was under the assumption that >>> there'd be indeed a revised ID). >> >> >> I just posted a message on this: this is approved with updated RFC Editor >> notes. See the approval message once it is sent. >> ... > > > This is not how it's supposed to work. Please have a new I-D posted and get > people to review the changes in context. This is a *very* important piece of > standards work - we need to make sure it meets quality standards. > > From a quick glance at > , I > already note that the appendix "Changes from RFC 7159" is now incomplete. > > Best regards, Julian > > _______________________________________________ > json mailing list > json@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/json From nobody Tue Jul 18 04:18:24 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9175813178B; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 04:18:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=qti.qualcomm.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nxHRwuVRZvZ4; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 04:18:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sabertooth02.qualcomm.com (sabertooth02.qualcomm.com [65.197.215.38]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9EC8F131488; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 04:18:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qti.qualcomm.com; i=@qti.qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1500376700; x=1531912700; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to: references:mime-version; bh=f1aCV/FMkh3T51ytMuRUHO/4NIvcHJJL4QwQ/ggEx1A=; b=qDxOReyYyKQ/g3X/9XbD6sL2tawDkvEhW1diz2fB3wCr6LvDMteYnqXE DG69WtukpjZhGeQoVnKMARuII0Cd2EL/Q8w2AlLnBPW+tpDvu0qaDTqJ4 ZZmw/ZUGqwrP0uFWeI3RA3C+R9iWe39hpXurxR2kzn39FfRM7WQm9fid6 o=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.40,377,1496127600"; d="scan'208";a="111796188" Received: from unknown (HELO ironmsg02-R.qualcomm.com) ([10.53.140.106]) by sabertooth02.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 18 Jul 2017 04:18:19 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=McAfee;i="5800,7501,8594"; a="1000376862" X-MGA-submission: =?us-ascii?q?MDHdP7SZDsoDm676c6k/mkii9nF9Q3H+lG8Ce4?= =?us-ascii?q?v+KQ/XEtFHxg7glU+p2FvXE9pxFDK2gNPcm/VMASCf0/gj+k6wG9OJU4?= =?us-ascii?q?VmluZubRyJ0Ua4pXVXkG12CxJt9s71vzlBWrMe45WxcQQ4d+WT5VWbm8?= =?us-ascii?q?xr?= Received: from nasanexm01b.na.qualcomm.com ([10.85.0.82]) by ironmsg02-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-SHA; 18 Jul 2017 04:18:19 -0700 Received: from [10.64.103.81] (10.80.80.8) by NASANEXM01B.na.qualcomm.com (10.85.0.82) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1178.4; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 04:18:18 -0700 From: Pete Resnick To: Barry Leiba CC: Julian Reschke , Alexey Melnikov , "ietf@ietf.org" , "json@ietf.org" Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 13:18:15 +0200 Message-ID: <28D32024-5E4C-44C7-A54A-049BA97289CE@qti.qualcomm.com> In-Reply-To: References: <596CE6E3.3070808@isode.com> <92698d15-6557-8bb1-aad0-a0965e779e71@gmx.de> <668A56FD-4B89-472C-9E4C-BE5C0E6921F9@isode.com> <6a42a587-f09c-14bc-847b-7882c8f3e9f7@gmx.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.6r5347) X-Originating-IP: [10.80.80.8] X-ClientProxiedBy: NASANEXM01E.na.qualcomm.com (10.85.0.31) To NASANEXM01B.na.qualcomm.com (10.85.0.82) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-03: recommendation to use UTF-8 X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 11:18:22 -0000 Alexey, I believe Julian and Barry's notes constitute an appeal of the Protocol Action, and I think they're probably right. Please rescind it, publish the new draft, and give people a bit to review. No need for another formal LC, but doing this in a note to the RFC Editor isn't kosher. pr On 18 Jul 2017, at 13:04, Barry Leiba wrote: > I have to agree with Julian here: this is not a change that's > appropriate to do in an RFC Editor note. The change is probably fine, > but draft revisions are cheap and it's easy enough to post a revised > I-D to make sure we can all see the final version in context. > > Thanks, > Barry > > > On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 10:19 AM, Julian Reschke > wrote: >> On 2017-07-18 10:05, Alexey Melnikov wrote: >>> >>> Hi Julian, >>> >>>> On 18 Jul 2017, at 08:52, Julian Reschke >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 2017-07-17 18:33, Alexey Melnikov wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> The JSONBIS WG decided to update recommendation on Unicode >>>>> encoding to >>>>> be UTF-8. (For details see the RFC Editor's notes in the approval >>>>> message that will be sent out shortly.) This took a bit of time to >>>>> debate in the WG, so the document approval took a bit longer than >>>>> originally expected. >>>>> Best Regards, >>>>> Alexey, as the responsible AD >>>> >>>> >>>> The last WG mail related to this topic is over 2 months old, and I >>>> don't >>>> see any declaration of consensus. >>>> >>>> It would be good if the chair would send a summary about what's >>>> going on >>>> to the WG mailing list before anything gets finalized. >>>> >>>> (I note that >>>> >>>> has been >>>> saying "Revised ID Needed" for 48 days, and I was under the >>>> assumption that >>>> there'd be indeed a revised ID). >>> >>> >>> I just posted a message on this: this is approved with updated RFC >>> Editor >>> notes. See the approval message once it is sent. >>> ... >> >> >> This is not how it's supposed to work. Please have a new I-D posted >> and get >> people to review the changes in context. This is a *very* important >> piece of >> standards work - we need to make sure it meets quality standards. >> >> From a quick glance at >> , >> I >> already note that the appendix "Changes from RFC 7159" is now >> incomplete. >> >> Best regards, Julian >> >> _______________________________________________ >> json mailing list >> json@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/json From nobody Tue Jul 18 04:28:04 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 951F9131AA6; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 04:27:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nkWUBxezbZ4m; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 04:27:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x22c.google.com (mail-qt0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3A328131A7B; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 04:27:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id 21so12940221qtx.3; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 04:27:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=U/N9XJxNb5Yn+4mpRLtcxYZT5644/VsHb5sOnEsFSC8=; b=ZrspHuW0YuvcwtuUOePiyVPtBamyAO3mivX5wSNtsbaupm0R5TvjYESAEoW7HdyZVh z3iLvhnaNpRmsiW4kKP70ZAHMz1S/uxWa89SJcFSicjlay7sk9unwY+wYhWWvbt04aMS 0O1rhOSd9R/UIEl52KjC8lpuISIjPnTOspJuUCJBm0KuINrx4Kq3juPuql7ma7u9uSZi VPvPmlEGz0w+YZmP7R9fMWk6fv5pk2BisFWNtNUYOaTW27hkLSwUtryh/IOp804csFiH cRuLuE16ATme/WwyqBqgTwa0Lmhw+1R0NMZxyWYV3g8BHRZJKgF43heMu4613X0Gzk0K xXxw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=U/N9XJxNb5Yn+4mpRLtcxYZT5644/VsHb5sOnEsFSC8=; b=t7qDcsBITw8kDA3SIXVS5IqZJcgPxLBNU4QfzHTqdceG+p6oO92GoKMTQqkx8vHOIH ZaJjtioA5qdQPzifqjDJl/+sTZpzFtSXNh4WrdeSXirMYF4/an0Tc5Iu2tKtzzv6elcx GRNQqvKsTEtMw8vlD3gct+D5znBIpdmctNcY1nBhKCMHMIrta0fILAPLQi9sSO63KoDR gb1pR6jUiQFhD6TpbU+yDT450x87woZJOQcQza8aWABPwyNTKGn7tJ6cexb7n5LBXIYY 44gQbEmEzLfpRFYZKRxIauf8xQVvoXSL0UbDOU7mnNDL2VSIeSe/7Pqt6ys/lNlKKSDo LKCA== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw110JZhX8Ug4C9RAhy8ToWKKYz+RlFOJN8fPHGcnfFVmVC9Xfyr9V 4Qu4heXBcv2O77U6FmhvqjiDEy9WwA== X-Received: by 10.200.57.162 with SMTP id v31mr1220272qte.57.1500377273403; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 04:27:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: barryleiba.mailing.lists@gmail.com Received: by 10.200.37.40 with HTTP; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 04:27:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <28D32024-5E4C-44C7-A54A-049BA97289CE@qti.qualcomm.com> References: <596CE6E3.3070808@isode.com> <92698d15-6557-8bb1-aad0-a0965e779e71@gmx.de> <668A56FD-4B89-472C-9E4C-BE5C0E6921F9@isode.com> <6a42a587-f09c-14bc-847b-7882c8f3e9f7@gmx.de> <28D32024-5E4C-44C7-A54A-049BA97289CE@qti.qualcomm.com> From: Barry Leiba Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 13:27:52 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: Aj_LPBY7_DjgQ2Emrmu6XGeQkCA Message-ID: To: Pete Resnick Cc: Julian Reschke , Alexey Melnikov , "ietf@ietf.org" , "json@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-03: recommendation to use UTF-8 X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 11:27:56 -0000 I hadn't thought of it as an appeal, but I do think the current document state should be "Approved, Announcement to be Sent" with a substate of "Revised I-D Needed". If an appeal is what's needed to change that, then... yeah, sure. Barry On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 1:18 PM, Pete Resnick wrote: > Alexey, > > I believe Julian and Barry's notes constitute an appeal of the Protocol > Action, and I think they're probably right. Please rescind it, publish the > new draft, and give people a bit to review. No need for another formal LC, > but doing this in a note to the RFC Editor isn't kosher. > > pr > > > On 18 Jul 2017, at 13:04, Barry Leiba wrote: > >> I have to agree with Julian here: this is not a change that's >> appropriate to do in an RFC Editor note. The change is probably fine, >> but draft revisions are cheap and it's easy enough to post a revised >> I-D to make sure we can all see the final version in context. >> >> Thanks, >> Barry >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 10:19 AM, Julian Reschke >> wrote: >>> >>> On 2017-07-18 10:05, Alexey Melnikov wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Julian, >>>> >>>>> On 18 Jul 2017, at 08:52, Julian Reschke wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 2017-07-17 18:33, Alexey Melnikov wrote: >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> The JSONBIS WG decided to update recommendation on Unicode encoding to >>>>>> be UTF-8. (For details see the RFC Editor's notes in the approval >>>>>> message that will be sent out shortly.) This took a bit of time to >>>>>> debate in the WG, so the document approval took a bit longer than >>>>>> originally expected. >>>>>> Best Regards, >>>>>> Alexey, as the responsible AD >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The last WG mail related to this topic is over 2 months old, and I >>>>> don't >>>>> see any declaration of consensus. >>>>> >>>>> It would be good if the chair would send a summary about what's going >>>>> on >>>>> to the WG mailing list before anything gets finalized. >>>>> >>>>> (I note that >>>>> has >>>>> been >>>>> saying "Revised ID Needed" for 48 days, and I was under the assumption >>>>> that >>>>> there'd be indeed a revised ID). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I just posted a message on this: this is approved with updated RFC >>>> Editor >>>> notes. See the approval message once it is sent. >>>> ... >>> >>> >>> >>> This is not how it's supposed to work. Please have a new I-D posted and >>> get >>> people to review the changes in context. This is a *very* important piece >>> of >>> standards work - we need to make sure it meets quality standards. >>> >>> From a quick glance at >>> >>> , I >>> already note that the appendix "Changes from RFC 7159" is now incomplete. >>> >>> Best regards, Julian >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> json mailing list >>> json@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/json > > > _______________________________________________ > json mailing list > json@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/json From nobody Tue Jul 18 09:39:44 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A32813154E for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 09:39:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GJk1v2IpqfXY for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 09:39:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pmta2.delivery6.ore.mailhop.org (pmta2.delivery6.ore.mailhop.org [54.200.129.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A14B3129B26 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 09:39:41 -0700 (PDT) X-MHO-User: a4116db3-6bd7-11e7-a4a1-c9e62e5d9688 X-Report-Abuse-To: https://support.duocircle.com/support/solutions/articles/5000540958-duocircle-standard-smtp-abuse-information X-Originating-IP: 50.39.217.219 X-Mail-Handler: DuoCircle Outbound SMTP Received: from [192.168.254.4] (unknown [50.39.217.219]) by outbound2.ore.mailhop.org (Halon) with ESMTPSA id a4116db3-6bd7-11e7-a4a1-c9e62e5d9688; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 16:39:17 +0000 (UTC) From: Allen Wirfs-Brock Message-Id: <4BB9C876-7E28-4626-88F4-6F4AD8AFC870@wirfs-brock.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_FCD99F6C-E04D-4CD1-AB4B-FAC329CD74FC" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 09:39:39 -0700 In-Reply-To: Cc: Pete Cordell , Julian Reschke , "Matthew A. Miller" To: Tim Bray , "json@ietf.org" References: <40e3207f-e047-c898-1f0c-4422de1d597a@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <1b3ec14a-927a-8d46-e3d3-9807a9588437@outer-planes.net> <20170417175627.GK23461@localhost> <10B651F1-7FE0-484D-BD2E-FD146BC5FB04@tzi.org> <6eb23f90-6623-7888-bc1c-6640a9dababc@codalogic.com> <61bfad2b-850d-a11f-e80b-d5ed9ccb4dc9@codalogic.com> <08a88696-65ef-da05-0d77-1a07d04ebfc8@outer-planes.net> <6f047d01-ad72-59ab-9d34-20a8177ab3af@outer-planes.net> <44b4523a-5e4b-ccad-af96-931d8b9ad1c2@codalogic.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] Call for Consensus: Proposed Text for "8.1 Character Encoding" X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 16:39:43 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_FCD99F6C-E04D-4CD1-AB4B-FAC329CD74FC Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On May 13, 2017, at 10:37 AM, Tim Bray wrote: >=20 > I have one source of heartburn. The stated purpose of 7159bis is to = achieve harmony with ECMA 404. That document does *not* constrain JSON = encoding. I=E2=80=99m fine with saying that JSON has to be UTF-8, but = I think we should consult with ECMA and see if the goal of spec = harmonization is still possible if we make the UTF-8 restriction. Sorry, I didn=E2=80=99t see this when it was originally posted. I don=E2=80=99t believe that this would be a problem WRT ECMA-404 = harmony. as long as the UTF-8 requirement applies to specific use cases = such as =E2=80=9Cnetwork protocols=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CIETF-specified = protocols=E2=80=9D. ECMA-404 is only concern with defining which = sequences of Unicode code points are well-foirmed JSON texts. It does = not concern it self with how the code points might be encoded for = transmission or storage.=20 Concretely, within ECMAScript programs JSON texts are typically encoded = as UTF-16 strings and UTF-8 encodings have to be translated to UTF-16 = before the built-in JSON.parse function can be applied to them. But = those requirements are part of ECMA-262, the ECMAScript Language = Specification, and not part of ECMA-404.=20 Allen Wirts-Brock Interim Chair, Ecma TC39 --Apple-Mail=_FCD99F6C-E04D-4CD1-AB4B-FAC329CD74FC Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
On May 13, 2017, at 10:37 AM, Tim Bray <tbray@textuality.com> wrote:

I have one source of = heartburn.  The stated purpose of 7159bis is to achieve harmony = with ECMA 404.  That document does *not* constrain JSON = encoding.  I=E2=80=99m fine  with saying that JSON has to be = UTF-8, but I think we should consult with ECMA and see if the goal of = spec harmonization is still possible if we make the UTF-8 = restriction.

Sorry, I = didn=E2=80=99t see this when it was originally posted.

I don=E2=80=99t believe that this would be a = problem WRT ECMA-404 harmony. as long as the UTF-8 requirement applies = to specific use cases such as =E2=80=9Cnetwork protocols=E2=80=9D or = =E2=80=9CIETF-specified protocols=E2=80=9D.  ECMA-404 is only = concern with defining which sequences of Unicode code points are = well-foirmed JSON texts. It does not concern it self with how the code = points might be encoded for transmission or storage. 

Concretely, within ECMAScript programs JSON texts = are typically encoded as UTF-16 strings and UTF-8 encodings have to be = translated to UTF-16 before the built-in JSON.parse function can be = applied to them. But those requirements are part of ECMA-262, the =  ECMAScript Language Specification, and not part of = ECMA-404. 

Allen = Wirts-Brock
Interim Chair, Ecma TC39


= --Apple-Mail=_FCD99F6C-E04D-4CD1-AB4B-FAC329CD74FC-- From nobody Tue Jul 18 19:24:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 969B21274D2 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 19:24:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=textuality-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uyJxKNKQ-rDc for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 19:24:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x22e.google.com (mail-pg0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E4F97126D05 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 19:24:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id 123so22526384pgj.1 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 19:24:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=textuality-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=mTolAwUvq29ILQ+5katHVRsAJrCkXBcwLmXF47cac2c=; b=MlEF61yniHzD9CdDranbXVLsf7ImYFdYEUx4Sa4VsRwCry3AvOWzoWTtrnyEzXZjIK gWsJDLvbQLlUErSKDlfUltFA1/5MoXh4xhHz05W7mln2tKcd/f46xv2dgs1AyZAQF6Tn KJxJxyxp6h1397K+itvMdyrMsVSqJYOyLeH+HTdrJIVnBSl4MF+BmY8kqqHjMA+NZSxC Sp6wgECRAeG90VR4z8VYHNUEdBDtlkOjeqR4X47kK9Q+vfasmJIbDIeR1js8Y1rmRip4 sLQGTakV34IIPWMBAg9Kw48pTtaKlMUIa09tbW9u/lxQ4BkESqxzVdQJmW9MIt8+0oJp n8sA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=mTolAwUvq29ILQ+5katHVRsAJrCkXBcwLmXF47cac2c=; b=Hx669j3xpts8x4KivlSwNTRi3Ksrm9IL7FQQPIZLgQCmtoufg4UtGaN9E4zqEOa5lG CFjAmxhs//XdFHFm/v0TtHCdf7O23TxgJBDO0QSb3vHopvXetWX3i8YsD/H7hgddBvCB wk2/6ri9uKVCEeZTyfPav5so8Vv7iXiuRPNYL34C9SezVRED3Vg6SG1US7yj1cjx2dZU iBXn9Yq4rJHKNDccCuO8HWxlObf+sQf1FwDg4V9zqpQOa9gEjRBNfihlL/+pGuSpiDGw r74zjp49EIDGjItx82yiGrn81J73/oUJXdE3fMPL6u62lPkWamVTvTLR/FWZ8feZeL3c SeJg== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw1129yVNCH/C2TNeDnnX+TuS1ssdyrfuOdCP5VBcjzK4BEfUwVtVE c62X5S6KYYos1YAg60C4zeIyvDx4fJVP X-Received: by 10.98.201.75 with SMTP id k72mr609966pfg.99.1500431079541; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 19:24:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.155.42 with HTTP; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 19:24:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [24.86.134.32] In-Reply-To: <47640061-e387-ef14-4ed6-c1c203c3c2fb@gmx.de> References: <20170417175627.GK23461@localhost> <10B651F1-7FE0-484D-BD2E-FD146BC5FB04@tzi.org> <6eb23f90-6623-7888-bc1c-6640a9dababc@codalogic.com> <61bfad2b-850d-a11f-e80b-d5ed9ccb4dc9@codalogic.com> <08a88696-65ef-da05-0d77-1a07d04ebfc8@outer-planes.net> <6f047d01-ad72-59ab-9d34-20a8177ab3af@outer-planes.net> <44b4523a-5e4b-ccad-af96-931d8b9ad1c2@codalogic.com> <787b7e15-ea97-b458-c886-d21c4dd02803@outer-planes.net> <47640061-e387-ef14-4ed6-c1c203c3c2fb@gmx.de> From: Tim Bray Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 19:24:19 -0700 Message-ID: To: Julian Reschke Cc: "Matthew A. Miller" , "json@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c187c3a81af600554a255d1" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] Call for Consensus: Proposed Text for "8.1 Character Encoding" X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 02:24:42 -0000 --94eb2c187c3a81af600554a255d1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oops, OK, I can bash out a quick draft, it's straightforward, will do so unless chairs yell Stop. However, I'm not going to be in favor of taking this to RFC status until we hear that ECMA will proceed with the reconciliation. On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 1:47 AM, Julian Reschke wrote: > On 2017-07-18 10:27, Matthew A. Miller wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> I see consensus for the updated text below. A note to the RFC editor is >> added to ensure publication does not move forward until section 8.1 is >> updated, and the change noted in the appendix. >> ... >> > > 1) I'm OK with the change. > > 2) I'm *not* OK with the way it's being executed: > > - there should have been a new Internet Draft to review > > - we are making an important normative change (that can make existing > usages of JSON non-compliant) without getting IETF consensus for that cha= nge > > - we're putting the RFC Production Center in charge to maintain our text > (because the note to the RFC Editor does not say what to put into Appendi= x > A) > > Best regards, Julian > > > _______________________________________________ > json mailing list > json@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/json > --=20 - Tim Bray (If you=E2=80=99d like to send me a private message, see https://keybase.io/timbray) --94eb2c187c3a81af600554a255d1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Oop= s, OK, I can bash out a quick draft, it's straightforward, will do so u= nless chairs yell Stop. =C2=A0

However, I'm not going to be in favor of taking this to RFC statu= s until we hear that ECMA will proceed with the reconciliation.
=

On Tue, Jul 18, 2= 017 at 1:47 AM, Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de> w= rote:
On 2017-07-18 10:2= 7, Matthew A. Miller wrote:
Hello all,

I see consensus for the updated text below.=C2=A0 A note to the RFC editor = is
added to ensure publication does not move forward until section 8.1 is
updated, and the change noted in the appendix.
 ...

1) I'm OK with the change.

2) I'm *not* OK with the way it's being executed:

- there should have been a new Internet Draft to review

- we are making an important normative change (that can make existing usage= s of JSON non-compliant) without getting IETF consensus for that change

- we're putting the RFC Production Center in charge to maintain our tex= t (because the note to the RFC Editor does not say what to put into Appendi= x A)

Best regards, Julian


_______________________________________________
json mailing list
json@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/json



--
=
- Tim Bray (If you=E2=80=99d like to send me a private messag= e, see https://key= base.io/timbray)
--94eb2c187c3a81af600554a255d1-- From nobody Tue Jul 18 22:42:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F36B1274D0 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 22:42:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H69-Miu4rtRl for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 22:42:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A85C51242F5 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 22:42:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.20] ([93.217.103.129]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx103 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0M9s8K-1dMgD42MWW-00B26e; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 07:42:50 +0200 To: Tim Bray Cc: "Matthew A. Miller" , "json@ietf.org" References: <10B651F1-7FE0-484D-BD2E-FD146BC5FB04@tzi.org> <6eb23f90-6623-7888-bc1c-6640a9dababc@codalogic.com> <61bfad2b-850d-a11f-e80b-d5ed9ccb4dc9@codalogic.com> <08a88696-65ef-da05-0d77-1a07d04ebfc8@outer-planes.net> <6f047d01-ad72-59ab-9d34-20a8177ab3af@outer-planes.net> <44b4523a-5e4b-ccad-af96-931d8b9ad1c2@codalogic.com> <787b7e15-ea97-b458-c886-d21c4dd02803@outer-planes.net> <47640061-e387-ef14-4ed6-c1c203c3c2fb@gmx.de> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <2502705f-9701-7a2c-b4a1-0cd1288a0d47@gmx.de> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 07:42:48 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:Ab4XkDt0RCH2r5CHdmEKvd8BfVZlg6XWeSViJHrmvE63zcPF5lA pKiRUZp4SS0o5k2OKFtAHre+jG6nplDsTZXw5U8pW8lpAv5+VQizKNvP4vlxlbi7Bw7wQlx uoge+DQGFzLUnKK1I2mvu9JIucti5LuA6m69cHbbHPqygzh0WKy9EemZSV2ORCzIg7Sah0i ri6Ye2TAbHAX0ATgvaX0w== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:UwW5NO/+dLU=:tsEEilH4ky0/IVMcQkd/uI aEEKmGP2A5OC+nzuEhrQzb0CXzjGzBNkce3O/FslUuVzmrooI/M9rRGiqYjTNgzsjRHgSSLI8 SHm5TUSkK8TSqts2Css/Z9TkVQaklnKK4Ow5+KSI+WYigsxZo4c2D99Y6//LLoYZZ7pK05pva ftAOeii52+zP/LOSDIbt0iHYlPjiU0VlDQ0h/3sKSrsVNXGuHn+OFEXbSHtOamaSpMmOcc611 UcNh3iy+btPyB1rnJC+khl9IPn0vbnJmuvOU330oTDNuYEzpOrlcsIOtZRK1Mnjz3tJfe1FpF LZCvE0S+NGBqgxFdOlonsfMo3gvIxPIlEykBlhnZjzeBBQ5OndIlqOb5u1/FZ2Mg/lNDOg0cV buTe7i6fTqlhSg01Z9ICnclbRvgmFmHqaauDrunE7GHFx+L0Lh7PMonoN9Nd4YfNj/J73yL7j tquXr26j+ZfgUNokGmC4Z+zS5Q682zCzLzvb90+X4SkkYZ74igLgeJihlb6f3Ax1d1UR4u7bl p9GGJODt5jQW9nqMywuWLmEQZRLzIs38BdzD6y7JENgHPcoT912BHT0+IHD/2u8vfHnQM/4e1 wKZHgtzOIi14JeP2X9X6Si06TtSuw6dsNKPVZ64YREVmRKKe18lCCHCUCyeISZGD8JN8IPDCG og2pigoGEosWv83XJjDd0N61+5KhVgrJeFblCGXK+a1MC6BOYtumBBSQcQbtecBNW+BjQqIBr wl80Gb1Gy01jPtR2Nulsm/80UGwejldzNebt4wxe6RV/ODwIpap4BI7Fe9q8HhiCz0zX9MO8A BV4YScWJ4wj7wQEw15OQdg9nQ4fO6ZAyw5/tD1Mbju3eqAD3cw= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] Call for Consensus: Proposed Text for "8.1 Character Encoding" X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 05:42:55 -0000 On 2017-07-19 04:24, Tim Bray wrote: > Oops, OK, I can bash out a quick draft, it's straightforward, will do so > unless chairs yell Stop. ...you can use what I sent yesterday to the list. > However, I'm not going to be in favor of taking this to RFC status until > we hear that ECMA will proceed with the reconciliation. That's indeed another thing we need to make sure it happens. Best regards, Julian From nobody Tue Jul 18 23:20:28 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8983F127369 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 23:20:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.72 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.72 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fastmail.fm header.b=F2X2fAX6; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=p45HCtFV Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f4eewJnj5V2g for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 23:20:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com (out1-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DEA7112EC0B for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 23:20:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F1C0206AC; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 02:20:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web6 ([10.202.2.216]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 19 Jul 2017 02:20:24 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.fm; h= cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=sN7Le/W49ViaL1aQYXbU+EkFtMN16 lAvJA9FHH+YNIw=; b=F2X2fAX6nAqf2ou+pzInxiC5gPW6dOZBRi2n6eJfId3Kw U5xNJrW/ecAs9ES4o5CKXnvtZ0Dw+Ca77WKa0DwT1R0z+3KmcrOvBltoDL/uWvGe QRhBHNwifK7JNWz6205FomysFR0Er0T+zRByRTXnLNPG9PeQFEIKqUCAgai8fTfX XvSyemy38tv9rZVepgF+bf9YjijrNs7xDRSnaV6EbVIcc5jaQ47gTWGcRbKSA960 1MPSZ8HEUrOxUDXNJwHG6R/NZqU2T22k3L0Epw+49R1rs1RtxdswR6SIiJ/8Eaoj IXVd1zYKx3m7Tq13pb22IKE5Zz5RkCnOC9rb84TXw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=sN7Le/ W49ViaL1aQYXbU+EkFtMN16lAvJA9FHH+YNIw=; b=p45HCtFVNReAwWlUSdIMFW h8M/uar1SUILvd7LpSAWRYibC174deFPAspYAQJGTuKGvSAPcmUp9jV0QyaraAQH LgIkYticyiY4qxrcxIY+x9Ud5+dfqJd8uizSKYPmDDL5iJ2Xa3f0TyKKjSKSEJu1 GZHwGkPAEHW1eA8v2SGNsdLQaRz0tUQeu0ZKywMmR8k9EWXXLHVZ2X6Upw+LKVEv vZrhpGenr6OFe46V+/6v5dX7oF0VMuT3tOWIUltRb1kbonJkO/DHx/YCOQDHIX6h 7L9Fw+onREdaNeUchrXZ41sw29fKaCF2HCFOLuITSEW1ZoyNKHIm5H3RLS15Qjrw == X-ME-Sender: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 99) id 2EE6B48004; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 02:20:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1500445224.4016488.1045504536.5E125BA0@webmail.messagingengine.com> From: Alexey Melnikov To: Julian Reschke , Tim Bray Cc: "Matthew A. Miller" , json@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface - ajax-095ee039 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 07:20:24 +0100 In-Reply-To: <2502705f-9701-7a2c-b4a1-0cd1288a0d47@gmx.de> References: <10B651F1-7FE0-484D-BD2E-FD146BC5FB04@tzi.org> <6eb23f90-6623-7888-bc1c-6640a9dababc@codalogic.com> <61bfad2b-850d-a11f-e80b-d5ed9ccb4dc9@codalogic.com> <08a88696-65ef-da05-0d77-1a07d04ebfc8@outer-planes.net> <6f047d01-ad72-59ab-9d34-20a8177ab3af@outer-planes.net> <44b4523a-5e4b-ccad-af96-931d8b9ad1c2@codalogic.com> <787b7e15-ea97-b458-c886-d21c4dd02803@outer-planes.net> <47640061-e387-ef14-4ed6-c1c203c3c2fb@gmx.de> <2502705f-9701-7a2c-b4a1-0cd1288a0d47@gmx.de> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] Call for Consensus: Proposed Text for "8.1 Character Encoding" X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 06:20:27 -0000 On Wed, Jul 19, 2017, at 06:42 AM, Julian Reschke wrote: > On 2017-07-19 04:24, Tim Bray wrote: (snip) > > However, I'm not going to be in favor of taking this to RFC status until > > we hear that ECMA will proceed with the reconciliation. > > That's indeed another thing we need to make sure it happens. This will be my job in AUTH48. From nobody Wed Jul 19 03:15:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C23F131A78 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 03:14:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.982, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dvGLCfSAovDy for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 03:14:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ppsa-online.com (lvps217-199-162-192.vps.webfusion.co.uk [217.199.162.192]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9899B12F24E for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 03:14:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 3682 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2017 11:06:39 +0100 Received: from host109-155-118-120.range109-155.btcentralplus.com (HELO ?192.168.1.72?) (109.155.118.120) by lvps217-199-162-217.vps.webfusion.co.uk with ESMTPSA (DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA encrypted, authenticated); 19 Jul 2017 11:06:39 +0100 To: "Matthew A. Miller" Cc: "json@ietf.org" References: <20170417175627.GK23461@localhost> <10B651F1-7FE0-484D-BD2E-FD146BC5FB04@tzi.org> <6eb23f90-6623-7888-bc1c-6640a9dababc@codalogic.com> <61bfad2b-850d-a11f-e80b-d5ed9ccb4dc9@codalogic.com> <08a88696-65ef-da05-0d77-1a07d04ebfc8@outer-planes.net> <6f047d01-ad72-59ab-9d34-20a8177ab3af@outer-planes.net> <44b4523a-5e4b-ccad-af96-931d8b9ad1c2@codalogic.com> <787b7e15-ea97-b458-c886-d21c4dd02803@outer-planes.net> <9af0048b-8254-a651-3653-069503d6f0a8@codalogic.com> From: Pete Cordell Message-ID: <9d9a6a2a-5500-9aa7-d6cc-41e0ba2f9c99@codalogic.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 11:14:51 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <9af0048b-8254-a651-3653-069503d6f0a8@codalogic.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] Call for Consensus: Proposed Text for "8.1 Character Encoding" X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 10:14:59 -0000 Since nobody else seems to struggle with "over a network protocol", I'll withdraw this proposed wording change and support Matt's proposed wording. Roll the presses! Pete. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Pete Cordell Codalogic Ltd C++ tools for C++ programmers, http://codalogic.com Read & write XML in C++, http://www.xml2cpp.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- On 18/07/2017 10:41, Pete Cordell wrote: > On 18/07/2017 09:27, Matthew A. Miller wrote: >> Hello all, >> >> I see consensus for the updated text below. A note to the RFC editor is >> added to ensure publication does not move forward until section 8.1 is >> updated, and the change noted in the appendix. >> >> """ >> 8.1. Character Encoding >> >> When transmitting over a network protocol, or as a payload of a >> network protocol intended to be interpreted as part of a protocol, >> JSON text MUST be encoded in UTF-8 (Section 3 of [UNICODE]). > > I struggle here with "over a network protocol". Perhaps we have a > different idea of what "over a network protocol" means, but these days > everything goes over a network protocol at some point in my mind. > > Here's another stab at some wording in place of the first proposed > paragraph: > > When transmitted as part of an IETF defined protocol, JSON text > MUST be encoded in UTF-8 (Section 3 of [UNICODE]). > > Protocols defined outside the IETF are strongly encouraged to adopt > a similar "MUST be encoded in UTF-8" requirement, but mandating this > recommendation is beyond the scope of this specification. > > Regards, > > Pete Cordell > Codalogic Ltd > C++ tools for C++ programmers, http://codalogic.com > Read & write XML in C++, http://www.xml2cpp.com > > _______________________________________________ > json mailing list > json@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/json > From nobody Wed Jul 19 06:45:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietf.org Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC1D7131D22; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 06:45:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: json@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.57.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150047191184.7507.7143481683564082881@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 06:45:11 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Json] I-D Action: draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-04.txt X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 13:45:12 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Javascript Object Notation Update WG of the IETF. Title : The JavaScript Object Notation (JSON) Data Interchange Format Author : Tim Bray Filename : draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-04.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2017-07-18 Abstract: JavaScript Object Notation (JSON) is a lightweight, text-based, language-independent data interchange format. It was derived from the ECMAScript Programming Language Standard. JSON defines a small set of formatting rules for the portable representation of structured data. This document removes inconsistencies with other specifications of JSON, repairs specification errors, and offers experience-based interoperability guidance. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-04 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-04 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-04 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Jul 19 07:02:35 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C0CA131473 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 07:02:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=isode.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id St2PaTq_KVtm for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 07:02:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from waldorf.isode.com (waldorf.isode.com [62.232.206.188]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA07A12F268 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 07:02:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1500472950; d=isode.com; s=june2016; i=@isode.com; bh=hgyEGvdQ7SJMEklMj4T3vpKO/fsCNRGTe2uoNTSC4iE=; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version: In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description; b=oJQt0scjlelBvKQKvaRzmNnXmx4s+OE493AOxovyrdLbHFPqzS7fwDoywnlI05ZfzDtYrp yQUqNvGgkJOZSB+lT0ZFj28MXuK0KKUKORL/mH0/Uy+qtDQ0Qwyqgb05qNlj+g94vIIukR JJlF5eZ/0NmjF+O6YG+uyMjfQ3f48YQ=; Received: from [31.133.141.81] (dhcp-8d51.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.141.81]) by waldorf.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPSA id ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 15:02:30 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov X-Mailer: iPad Mail (14F89) In-Reply-To: <150047191184.7507.7143481683564082881@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 16:03:01 +0200 Message-Id: References: <150047191184.7507.7143481683564082881@ietfa.amsl.com> To: json@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] I-D Action: draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-04.txt X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 14:02:33 -0000 As requested by several people, this is the version that includes RFC Editor= notes. > On 19 Jul 2017, at 15:45, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directo= ries. > This draft is a work item of the Javascript Object Notation Update WG of t= he IETF. >=20 > Title : The JavaScript Object Notation (JSON) Data Interc= hange Format > Author : Tim Bray > Filename : draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-04.txt > Pages : 15 > Date : 2017-07-18 >=20 > Abstract: > JavaScript Object Notation (JSON) is a lightweight, text-based, > language-independent data interchange format. It was derived from > the ECMAScript Programming Language Standard. JSON defines a small > set of formatting rules for the portable representation of structured > data. >=20 > This document removes inconsistencies with other specifications of > JSON, repairs specification errors, and offers experience-based > interoperability guidance. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis/ >=20 > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-04 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-04 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-04 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissi= on > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Jul 20 03:50:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08DB1129AD1 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 03:50:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gsUUvG-EoY3r for ; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 03:50:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x236.google.com (mail-qt0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C4C1131BFA for ; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 03:50:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x236.google.com with SMTP id m7so18252930qtm.4 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 03:50:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=MJ8BK7+82GMq9kK7+3PIxEAhXhcPP7iYj1Ay/caYySU=; b=YjTo+g6dp1Mpj/0A05OtxMZhcQobbiU80Bcl+Bl8hHvqHu1Vq3aB89iinld/Ywy/zW XDg2WbKvwG1joF1Dk5X3x+QpSWdL4qIpgLmGvzUkrDVX16bfTCY9UYZAEY2BNPZxBo69 QnRIRJNy3dQ8QuLrKK9l5l56vXuop1SQE3Jf4M1dMhCPYPWP6VlKMOEsQ7f4zX8HJE9z OzQsPcR1SpfNONkGWb43X0xUzJU2iG4VAlZzNE3cpKEsc9q8ZHpTLYpWmDdzY4VZEd0V FSUy5GxIGfeHN57S2FKqQ0+SNyEma41uQ29ldC3hx3Scgq2xylErfFAe0a+EDImCJKA3 lT3Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=MJ8BK7+82GMq9kK7+3PIxEAhXhcPP7iYj1Ay/caYySU=; b=etRs+aZa/zXI/0LgXJ8FCIDaHIrx7A95Q06u4vOrQw4MRt5q9k81IKe4BqEv1l0FMB c0I28Bak0sDuYtXdIwUjefF/rHUXhfb8k3jXDCgQrWc8GyqOxvZ7LU+AyE2CYyBaAlOZ egNmZolivf2o1CCztHpVvF59EK5SHQgaAWL84JcHlBP+3QYwl3zfRqQSejmmCbX+axZw 321CZgFv1eCAguBLcRklZV5aYXvRDyBt4C+aHVv4Qgw92qcoJvqv3OQkX7jBZB3N0DCW iWt/07HggzbY60xPaUmcwFMygRcPQmFCkQA5cOxoaunv/2NtEMNLx9HApbAJv4IfBbkn F4+g== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw110LctTWrUEnhNDPeYrjNbcN2wf9zYmqytYJho+yy/AxVxnbzZOF 3ealcwfC/stRlzRrVwqy4ZUm8ToEnQ== X-Received: by 10.200.42.181 with SMTP id b50mr4097021qta.122.1500547818750; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 03:50:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: barryleiba.mailing.lists@gmail.com Received: by 10.200.37.40 with HTTP; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 03:50:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <150047191184.7507.7143481683564082881@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Barry Leiba Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2017 12:50:18 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: XgE-dzscvb-fgNf1yuhBIZuUaM0 Message-ID: To: Alexey Melnikov Cc: "json@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] I-D Action: draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-04.txt X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2017 10:50:21 -0000 I've reviewed this version and I think it's ready to publish. Barry On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 4:03 PM, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > As requested by several people, this is the version that includes RFC Editor notes. > >> On 19 Jul 2017, at 15:45, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: >> >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. >> This draft is a work item of the Javascript Object Notation Update WG of the IETF. >> >> Title : The JavaScript Object Notation (JSON) Data Interchange Format >> Author : Tim Bray >> Filename : draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-04.txt >> Pages : 15 >> Date : 2017-07-18 >> >> Abstract: >> JavaScript Object Notation (JSON) is a lightweight, text-based, >> language-independent data interchange format. It was derived from >> the ECMAScript Programming Language Standard. JSON defines a small >> set of formatting rules for the portable representation of structured >> data. >> >> This document removes inconsistencies with other specifications of >> JSON, repairs specification errors, and offers experience-based >> interoperability guidance. >> >> >> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis/ >> >> There are also htmlized versions available at: >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-04 >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-04 >> >> A diff from the previous version is available at: >> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-04 >> >> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission >> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >> >> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > json mailing list > json@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/json From nobody Thu Jul 20 18:42:56 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7066F1270A3 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 18:42:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=filament-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rePw-pGM2Sna for ; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 18:42:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io0-x232.google.com (mail-io0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 72EFF126D73 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 18:42:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io0-x232.google.com with SMTP id l7so17968835iof.1 for ; 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Thu, 20 Jul 2017 18:42:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aither.local ([2601:282:4202:67d3:20e7:86ef:990:8177]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f84sm133498ita.33.2017.07.20.18.42.50 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 20 Jul 2017 18:42:51 -0700 (PDT) To: json@ietf.org References: <150047191184.7507.7143481683564082881@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Peter Saint-Andre - Filament Message-ID: Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2017 19:42:49 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] I-D Action: draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-04.txt X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 01:42:55 -0000 I have three comments about this new sentence: When transmitting over a network protocol, or as a payload of a network protocol intended to be interpreted as part of a protocol, JSON text MUST be encoded in UTF-8 (Section 3 of [UNICODE]). 1. Is the term "network protocol" sufficiently clear? It might be interpreted as a communications protocol at the network layer (e.g., IP), not as an application-layer protocol above the network layer - which is where most or all usage of JSON occurs. 2. What are we trying to say with "as a payload of a network protocol intended to be interpreted as part of a protocol"? 3. Why do we reference Section 3 of the Unicode Standard for the definition of UTF-8, not RFC 3629? (Among other things, there's no guarantee that Section 3 of http://www.unicode.org/versions/latest/ will continue to talk about UTF-8.) I suggest: When an entity transmits JSON text over a network, e.g. as the payload of an application protocol, it MUST encode that text using UTF-8 [RFC3629]. Peter On 7/20/17 4:50 AM, Barry Leiba wrote: > I've reviewed this version and I think it's ready to publish. > > Barry > > On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 4:03 PM, Alexey Melnikov > wrote: >> As requested by several people, this is the version that includes RFC Editor notes. >> >>> On 19 Jul 2017, at 15:45, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: >>> >>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. >>> This draft is a work item of the Javascript Object Notation Update WG of the IETF. >>> >>> Title : The JavaScript Object Notation (JSON) Data Interchange Format >>> Author : Tim Bray >>> Filename : draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-04.txt >>> Pages : 15 >>> Date : 2017-07-18 >>> >>> Abstract: >>> JavaScript Object Notation (JSON) is a lightweight, text-based, >>> language-independent data interchange format. It was derived from >>> the ECMAScript Programming Language Standard. JSON defines a small >>> set of formatting rules for the portable representation of structured >>> data. >>> >>> This document removes inconsistencies with other specifications of >>> JSON, repairs specification errors, and offers experience-based >>> interoperability guidance. >>> >>> >>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis/ >>> >>> There are also htmlized versions available at: >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-04 >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-04 >>> >>> A diff from the previous version is available at: >>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-04 >>> >>> >>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission >>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>> >>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Jul 20 21:20:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE7011294A2 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 21:20:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.619 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.619 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n-VHJANblVkR for ; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 21:20:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E4DFD12441E for ; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 21:20:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.20] ([93.217.75.144]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx101 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LzoSt-1dd4K840P5-0151LL; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 06:20:12 +0200 To: Peter Saint-Andre - Filament , json@ietf.org References: <150047191184.7507.7143481683564082881@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 06:20:09 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:5B0uoQzzDhtcvpZiWSTF394JUoOBaH0Sr6RxlK9lTSFuZgTCyve 9sZSKcdi9fTnCrC8Y3z2aqTqfHNt9z2dbETicqZzQxmjqsPwjrn0/Q65cLXF86CeR+qk/Gp VRIWkJBjU84SXHyqHuLMJlEX0rPv2wsVmDCIk5hczJAh9i2gn8eGVg50fRp2HHUOFtptR60 U3G1IKLjjkYc0uiJRWivA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:SKX5XyeaWd0=:jXlTEwLYHfJo5F/G0aoaH4 pXNtkeAGiXmid4dneMoCF3OucqQ/SZQbSM5MFK1Yar+vnC12M+OO7ZH88zXQTKB4PgRGeduxJ 8V5HZJ77JdFBVkcab0MGuxHdzzXrVXKKX2gEAxqoVvRgsJlB9WKNWHPXIRTZDP0z/0z9ok9HD oNqtSx3NsqTYIoAv4H8mr2wc1BGuwX2sVcDYqoz5GopT1DoVlHfhqoH2vw5J+ohcLyn+991nQ oHNYo01D1Yd8BHBAE+8u64S1VRoaFKHeEuQeqtPS/0zVQ34U+0CpO+9weQTYFh0qPpLkQ08JY OZxrdHbFu+Itay4D+OwKvF6r7xZcQ/pGU4MrUZtjU6LPsDox7K9jTEORDcKcqxJsAGEYI6TE5 IjYEk8DTM0P8F4bqJH0UXBhtmVpohxn/bg6GpQT/Xgo63NmEMOGxjtR+qfNgvg7Z0dNi8ps39 gOcAwFQ0RHy218Wh36cdtUWZ7ymCidqplbW9qoP6nzB6KWHOs53ac5P2p1hq59Fp4kL7KZhOd 5PCSnJMPOwimmz6C099XLFfcdTh+KJ9Y7xHnWCfV+nkwhcqgXfjshrq99aPLB37JOI1WIsxio 61Cl89LD9gaaC5ByJGKbnt0yjwJofIq1CpRVa86w2VkYv+jFCoJbGzj8cIrYa+wTZqGe8oFiV oaeqnW+ImdGPisNnKQraXgzq7mMHVMWBpGwOAXsxyufwLq+tP4yJRGcmIb1tykUlnfa6OlAN4 8vqIu+eMJ4n4nn9/yBWPf9NCZNTKBjufgPhCXQ00Qr6Qp1R3dcjkDXoUCtbP884hHHns1rulj h4VImPwGfJFxGPLqX7e82qYdbiIE3+IM/Mo7ULEhsmwapiT5Z0= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] I-D Action: draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-04.txt X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 04:20:17 -0000 On 2017-07-21 03:42, Peter Saint-Andre - Filament wrote: > I have three comments about this new sentence: > > When transmitting over a network protocol, or as a payload of a > network protocol intended to be interpreted as part of a protocol, > JSON text MUST be encoded in UTF-8 (Section 3 of [UNICODE]). > > 1. Is the term "network protocol" sufficiently clear? It might be > interpreted as a communications protocol at the network layer (e.g., > IP), not as an application-layer protocol above the network layer - > which is where most or all usage of JSON occurs. No, it's not totally clear, and that's indeed a problem when combined with a MUST. > 2. What are we trying to say with "as a payload of a network protocol > intended to be interpreted as part of a protocol"? > > 3. Why do we reference Section 3 of the Unicode Standard for the > definition of UTF-8, not RFC 3629? (Among other things, there's no > guarantee that Section 3 of http://www.unicode.org/versions/latest/ will > continue to talk about UTF-8.) Right. > I suggest: > > When an entity transmits JSON text over a network, e.g. as the > payload of an application protocol, it MUST encode that text using > UTF-8 [RFC3629]. This gets us back to the suggestion to apply this rule to the use of the application/json media type (and types derived from it). Best regards, Julian From nobody Thu Jul 20 22:15:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4319C12EAAA for ; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 22:14:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P9xi9UFurl8z for ; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 22:14:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BDC0C126C23 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 22:14:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.201.11]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v6L5EquQ026277; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 07:14:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from surfer-172-30-2-218-hotspot.internet-for-guests.com (107.223.broadband2.iol.cz [83.208.223.107]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3xDJqJ5SFkz3ZK4; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 07:14:52 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 07:14:52 +0200 Cc: Peter Saint-Andre - Filament , json@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 522306892.012584-824a091485022e90ff5ad4991b49f226 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <262E8314-263A-4443-B912-AFCF1A3277B2@tzi.org> References: <150047191184.7507.7143481683564082881@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Julian Reschke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] I-D Action: draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-04.txt X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 05:14:58 -0000 On Jul 21, 2017, at 06:20, Julian Reschke wrote: >=20 >>=20 >> I suggest: >> When an entity transmits JSON text over a network, e.g. as the >> payload of an application protocol, it MUST encode that text using >> UTF-8 [RFC3629]. >=20 > This gets us back to the suggestion to apply this rule to the use of = the application/json media type (and types derived from it). The nit-picking opportunity here is that we don=E2=80=99t want to change = NFS in case someone accesses a file with UTF-32 JSON in it over the = network protocol NFS. We could recognize this as nit-picking, or use a = phrase such as =E2=80=9Cintended by the protocol to be JSON=E2=80=9D =E2=80= =94 media types are not the only way such an intention could take shape. (Re the previous discussion: We do not have to define =E2=80=9Cnetwork = protocol=E2=80=9D further. Sheesh. But the point is that any protocol = that claims to interchange JSON should define the JSON to be used in = UTF-8 format, just as we define application/json to be UTF-8 format.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Fri Jul 21 00:42:34 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 979CF12714F for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 00:42:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.982, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jHzOybmsF9vN for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 00:42:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ppsa-online.com (lvps217-199-162-192.vps.webfusion.co.uk [217.199.162.192]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2E4F7124217 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 00:42:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 31805 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2017 08:34:11 +0100 Received: from host109-155-118-120.range109-155.btcentralplus.com (HELO ?192.168.1.72?) (109.155.118.120) by lvps217-199-162-217.vps.webfusion.co.uk with ESMTPSA (DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA encrypted, authenticated); 21 Jul 2017 08:34:11 +0100 To: Carsten Bormann , Julian Reschke Cc: Peter Saint-Andre - Filament , json@ietf.org References: <150047191184.7507.7143481683564082881@ietfa.amsl.com> <262E8314-263A-4443-B912-AFCF1A3277B2@tzi.org> From: Pete Cordell Message-ID: <2e6f5ead-1c20-d727-87a7-bbfe75ed4896@codalogic.com> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 08:42:24 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <262E8314-263A-4443-B912-AFCF1A3277B2@tzi.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] I-D Action: draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-04.txt X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 07:42:33 -0000 On 21/07/2017 06:14, Carsten Bormann wrote: > On Jul 21, 2017, at 06:20, Julian Reschke wrote: >> >>> >>> I suggest: >>> When an entity transmits JSON text over a network, e.g. as the >>> payload of an application protocol, it MUST encode that text using >>> UTF-8 [RFC3629]. >> >> This gets us back to the suggestion to apply this rule to the use of the application/json media type (and types derived from it). > > The nit-picking opportunity here is that we don’t want to change NFS in case someone accesses a file with UTF-32 JSON in it over the network protocol NFS. We could recognize this as nit-picking, or use a phrase such as “intended by the protocol to be JSON” — media types are not the only way such an intention could take shape. Clearly one person's nit-picking is another person's attempt to reduce confusion (especially of those not party to this discussion)! I think Allen Wirts-Brock's "IETF-specified protocol" is the clearest and simplest (https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/json/0TVI13NELfsuC7FscgDvXZThenE ). e.g. IETF-specified protocols MUST encode JSON text using UTF-8 [RFC3629]. Pete Cordell Codalogic Ltd Read & write XML in C++, http://www.xml2cpp.com From nobody Fri Jul 21 00:51:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 269A8131DFE for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 00:51:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.619 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.619 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K8bq7MvZnnoX for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 00:51:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BB11312714F for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 00:51:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.34] ([217.91.35.233]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx102 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MDW9x-1dOFau1SFp-00GsUW; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 09:51:29 +0200 To: Pete Cordell , Carsten Bormann Cc: Peter Saint-Andre - Filament , json@ietf.org References: <150047191184.7507.7143481683564082881@ietfa.amsl.com> <262E8314-263A-4443-B912-AFCF1A3277B2@tzi.org> <2e6f5ead-1c20-d727-87a7-bbfe75ed4896@codalogic.com> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <82da41d9-ab0b-ae9b-55f8-d17dc65bb61f@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 09:51:27 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <2e6f5ead-1c20-d727-87a7-bbfe75ed4896@codalogic.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:4t/b4ZSGea6mh4ZXyp2XW6Oc7mb46tB5TMKbuqS97Ksmzd83bK3 QM/cLoJa8S5oy62Rixy8eahDfpdOJv/YNg3VYpDnAnCrOjm+R9P2MLm5uCxBJQvgc8114Bq lsnv/EdotmEmyMbqmqX8SXrZg0OiS1aRRl3YeyOHUN2osuTrmdytG5YTpjZZSQdiM+SyiQK sN3FUwsCJLvEIIynaVqhg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:kqdIOUMLUXk=:NjHsN2TEIFiOGeMpzrdtoU rfTwdpfojDiV+QR/7WqzfYQtUojtAQltzdV/dzatq0WwbEZj8LcaUXYXIouC7ls6xvyx0kPVP VW1b+RZnTVxS1bMYIKec74QkrJW7FYIkenbudUQfIKO/ZXxZe8hZYuRb4/esz9usE9zxw+hcS glcX3oWwL1VE2/+etCRsI2LA+TKmNRU01E2pATELV4TMph9zRUaxHJM09BQHRmNIK2Nqt1nwJ t/tS3UbXzQ0NvXTUpivLKSNIDBefxCpRaDJ8DT30awZjp1URyiDo9Xq0axfg8SZaczLpXvqOU tpYe+oQvbuXyuV40Qzp7872go+c0qeFVLg0E+o2oRDyPIM67pOL+485FkmxTOQbbRRp4jJ7kR 3t7fSsufks8R0Omm4uPP940G4D9fb8dHQhT3MX1Cr6g04xNC6AC76B16oNp3XLmTA2W8L+n/Z 8dv5De6D/L45EKdFCy8xoa1bbz3pdxkGQTFIYLPPRWdEUyLEogXlw53BtBiDHEfAhjBVLrI6q TEmZ9TYxQIFQx2tdY0RmEj5riwVwr/p1SzrqJjF6GLn1REECAvx1R85yZhy8xqCKFz6Mdxc/L aczCIN2cbUHp/AUdhLIhEKkcj0YuT+13fS/v+tiBkDeazZi7eoOzWGkt+3M5gJqah5o3g2xIo dETEqaknB7BLHivAFN8GFCLWldCqQHQGUE2smjw9KYXGHK5mLQafmjRUZlrdzh9pYbU1xv4bA BVQQhH8hS/zUcEjVeRSbelSllxPChK7SG+bI4GXRiH8eC7Ls49Ao2FvBxunJt07DMm9deyTNT Bl/R0ABLU92EoNClJuz8lUA4Pu3Bz43pXKlwidzgXQiTjQ6Afc= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] I-D Action: draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-04.txt X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 07:51:42 -0000 On 2017-07-21 09:42, Pete Cordell wrote: > On 21/07/2017 06:14, Carsten Bormann wrote: >> On Jul 21, 2017, at 06:20, Julian Reschke wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> I suggest: >>>> When an entity transmits JSON text over a network, e.g. as the >>>> payload of an application protocol, it MUST encode that text using >>>> UTF-8 [RFC3629]. >>> >>> This gets us back to the suggestion to apply this rule to the use of >>> the application/json media type (and types derived from it). >> >> The nit-picking opportunity here is that we don’t want to change NFS >> in case someone accesses a file with UTF-32 JSON in it over the >> network protocol NFS. We could recognize this as nit-picking, or use >> a phrase such as “intended by the protocol to be JSON” — media types >> are not the only way such an intention could take shape. > > Clearly one person's nit-picking is another person's attempt to reduce > confusion (especially of those not party to this discussion)! +1 > I think Allen Wirts-Brock's "IETF-specified protocol" is the clearest > and simplest > (https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/json/0TVI13NELfsuC7FscgDvXZThenE > ). e.g. > > IETF-specified protocols MUST encode JSON text using UTF-8 > [RFC3629]. > > Pete Cordell > Codalogic Ltd > Read & write XML in C++, http://www.xml2cpp.com -1 So if a specify a protocol outside the IETF, and use application/json as HTTP payload, I *can* use UTF-16? Best regards, Julian From nobody Fri Jul 21 01:27:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA8A6131CFE for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 01:27:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.982, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S7NxrLi8gN70 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 01:27:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ppsa-online.com (lvps217-199-162-192.vps.webfusion.co.uk [217.199.162.192]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 78F2712778D for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 01:27:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 1558 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2017 09:18:54 +0100 Received: from host109-155-118-120.range109-155.btcentralplus.com (HELO ?192.168.1.72?) (109.155.118.120) by lvps217-199-162-217.vps.webfusion.co.uk with ESMTPSA (DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA encrypted, authenticated); 21 Jul 2017 09:18:54 +0100 To: Julian Reschke , Carsten Bormann Cc: Peter Saint-Andre - Filament , json@ietf.org References: <150047191184.7507.7143481683564082881@ietfa.amsl.com> <262E8314-263A-4443-B912-AFCF1A3277B2@tzi.org> <2e6f5ead-1c20-d727-87a7-bbfe75ed4896@codalogic.com> <82da41d9-ab0b-ae9b-55f8-d17dc65bb61f@gmx.de> From: Pete Cordell Message-ID: <899d8a84-a46e-e95a-6fe0-e5812655f5b8@codalogic.com> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 09:27:07 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <82da41d9-ab0b-ae9b-55f8-d17dc65bb61f@gmx.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] I-D Action: draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-04.txt X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 08:27:14 -0000 On 21/07/2017 08:51, Julian Reschke wrote: > On 2017-07-21 09:42, Pete Cordell wrote: >>> On Jul 21, 2017, at 06:20, Julian Reschke wrote: > >> I think Allen Wirts-Brock's "IETF-specified protocol" is the clearest >> and simplest >> (https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/json/0TVI13NELfsuC7FscgDvXZThenE ). >> e.g. >> >> IETF-specified protocols MUST encode JSON text using UTF-8 >> [RFC3629]. >> > > -1 > > So if a specify a protocol outside the IETF, and use application/json as > HTTP payload, I *can* use UTF-16? Good point. How about: IETF-specified protocols and media associated with the application/json media type, MUST encode JSON text using UTF-8 [RFC3629]. Pete Cordell Codalogic Ltd C++ tools for C++ programmers, http://codalogic.com Read & write XML in C++, http://www.xml2cpp.com From nobody Fri Jul 21 06:35:22 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6B1B129B43 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 06:35:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OGSealo7c0uA for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 06:35:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E3925131E0F for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 06:35:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.201.11]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v6LDZ5Mm016779; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 15:35:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from client-0032.vpn.uni-bremen.de (client-0032.vpn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.107.32]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3xDWwT1RP1z3ZSK; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 15:35:05 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <899d8a84-a46e-e95a-6fe0-e5812655f5b8@codalogic.com> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 15:35:04 +0200 Cc: Julian Reschke , Peter Saint-Andre - Filament , json@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 522336904.172077-1aff39e27ee7f00d0df90273867f802c Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <2C2529CA-2F7F-422B-9DD7-4144F05AF88E@tzi.org> References: <150047191184.7507.7143481683564082881@ietfa.amsl.com> <262E8314-263A-4443-B912-AFCF1A3277B2@tzi.org> <2e6f5ead-1c20-d727-87a7-bbfe75ed4896@codalogic.com> <82da41d9-ab0b-ae9b-55f8-d17dc65bb61f@gmx.de> <899d8a84-a46e-e95a-6fe0-e5812655f5b8@codalogic.com> To: Pete Cordell X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] I-D Action: draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-04.txt X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 13:35:21 -0000 On Jul 21, 2017, at 10:27, Pete Cordell wrote: >=20 > Good point. How about: >=20 > IETF-specified protocols and media associated with the > application/json media type, MUST encode JSON text using UTF-8 > [RFC3629]. This is not about the IETF. If I buy a Mercedes, I want to get a car built by Daimler-Benz. If people send me JSON, I want to get JSON (the UTF-8 form that everyone = uses). Now, there are other areas where, say, Mercedes is a woman=E2=80=99s = name. There might even be a restaurant called =E2=80=9CMercedes=E2=80=99 = kitchen". The objective cannot be that women or their restaurants no = longer be called Mercedes (that the use of UTF-16 encoded JSON in C# or = JavaScript becomes illegal). It=E2=80=99s just when you sell a car as a = Mercedes (send me an object as JSON), I want to get a Mercedes (JSON). Consult a trade mark lawyer if that wasn=E2=80=99t clear :-) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Fri Jul 21 08:35:26 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C1B2131935 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 08:35:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=filament-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2HM9gmJL21LT for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 08:35:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-it0-x231.google.com (mail-it0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 42EF912EC57 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 08:35:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-it0-x231.google.com with SMTP id v127so9106882itd.0 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 08:35:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=filament-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=6APnrobH+ziPTOq/CTHmCf/0GQ4UvGaZOXfLqmueIjQ=; b=GqQEGgYMeATCFUnZpW7xtXXxnII5XT9y6z+x2y6gofl4j730HYotuyzEH8Ba2Aj2oy HDvEpjbLDqozbC45BByl3KOwrVk2YT0Y2z2oGM3zinwQeiTVjF1yxmSDCrcuO8b6vsmJ ikjtOt7PxUj2/hBYj6KbK33WfoXTKo5Gpe1zpt7SXUft767PIeRX101Qyl7DQuTmAWcs AY7N6IVGEaB9FTqAf5mSsZAeemJbuLHd90pTIGwr1FaoqdkY3cPKW2j00H9LlHROkT89 2FE0x0i/wJ9IGX0Tup7CssDMVTAU9fikjpXJZxRYSn8GuJwg0hgW47oYQrrM5TALOP6w SNLg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=6APnrobH+ziPTOq/CTHmCf/0GQ4UvGaZOXfLqmueIjQ=; b=Pw16/5j+BDdIPvbJBHHnxxoCciIJVhI1QGT6l6cZGI0wywmIHcipMNA5PWh2MYCn+z f7suIRWbxFd7qiedQ4bV5aJSVWhcRklBwKu80rVHKsBSsKRMBAsJxhYC/yHMZFglI9qc opRHv/gbR2shvCl5bPNQlLRnq8dqJ+H26Vq5GvzVYz09DsW6vrsG4/tIVIVWa0OEeb6J vGqDq6VhLS9u11Lksen2PI+vv1E3BeX4nOwxQbzdwfGYkIFParCuHzbXTRXqTsM1mQUC mD0QLm/GzHupv5joUw1uiNZkRkYcMrQEx2aGYZ+bv3LhcqMZWdNOi4+oXqZgSkfzAhNx OYqg== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw110FhUc+bqB9Ds7RHE7B2WWfjyF2GdKKNS3LizVOfCP7G3bTri2d ce2rmY3wZPBLXKOk X-Received: by 10.36.40.196 with SMTP id h187mr7555076ith.43.1500651321771; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 08:35:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aither.local ([2601:282:4202:67d3:9db5:67cc:4146:d455]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m27sm2453305ioi.19.2017.07.21.08.35.20 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 21 Jul 2017 08:35:20 -0700 (PDT) To: Carsten Bormann , Julian Reschke References: <150047191184.7507.7143481683564082881@ietfa.amsl.com> <262E8314-263A-4443-B912-AFCF1A3277B2@tzi.org> Cc: json@ietf.org From: Peter Saint-Andre - Filament Message-ID: <166957c4-26fc-90b5-a798-59280c91b466@filament.com> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 09:35:20 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <262E8314-263A-4443-B912-AFCF1A3277B2@tzi.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] I-D Action: draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-04.txt X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 15:35:24 -0000 On 7/20/17 11:14 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote: > On Jul 21, 2017, at 06:20, Julian Reschke > wrote: >> >>> >>> I suggest: When an entity transmits JSON text over a network, >>> e.g. as the payload of an application protocol, it MUST encode >>> that text using UTF-8 [RFC3629]. >> >> This gets us back to the suggestion to apply this rule to the use >> of the application/json media type (and types derived from it). > > The nit-picking opportunity here is that we don’t want to change NFS > in case someone accesses a file with UTF-32 JSON in it over the > network protocol NFS. We could recognize this as nit-picking, or use > a phrase such as “intended by the protocol to be JSON” — media types > are not the only way such an intention could take shape. > > (Re the previous discussion: We do not have to define “network > protocol” further. Sheesh. But the point is that any protocol that > claims to interchange JSON should define the JSON to be used in UTF-8 > format, just as we define application/json to be UTF-8 format.) Hallo Carsten, Improvements over my suggested text are welcome. Or do you think that the text in -04 is good enough? I find it somewhat ambiguous. Peter From nobody Fri Jul 21 09:08:07 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 983CA128BC8 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 09:08:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mLKye7Z8QLnc for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 09:08:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB011126C0F for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 09:08:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::b]) by mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v6LG7xji016826; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 18:07:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from client-0176.vpn.uni-bremen.de (client-0176.vpn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.107.176]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by submithost.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3xDbJt59gdz3ZVp; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 18:07:58 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <166957c4-26fc-90b5-a798-59280c91b466@filament.com> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 18:07:57 +0200 Cc: Julian Reschke , json@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 522346077.124164-9aa41f07bd4c895c79374f31799b8102 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <8B60039F-96DD-4F72-8139-D80B6F11566C@tzi.org> References: <150047191184.7507.7143481683564082881@ietfa.amsl.com> <262E8314-263A-4443-B912-AFCF1A3277B2@tzi.org> <166957c4-26fc-90b5-a798-59280c91b466@filament.com> To: Peter Saint-Andre - Filament X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] I-D Action: draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-04.txt X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 16:08:06 -0000 On Jul 21, 2017, at 17:35, Peter Saint-Andre - Filament = wrote: >=20 > Improvements over my suggested text are welcome. Or do you think that > the text in -04 is good enough? I find it somewhat ambiguous. Hi Peter, >>> When an entity transmits JSON text over a network, >>> e.g. as the payload of an application protocol, it MUST encode >>> that text using UTF-8 [RFC3629]. =E2=80=A6 seems close enough for me. It clearly has a nitpicking opportunity, but other attempts to improve = the original text so far have made it worse. I was mainly trying to point out that the mere fact that one can = willfully pretend to misunderstand this (or the previous) text does not = mean that it actually is ambiguous to a cooperating reader =E2=80=94 the = previous version is just a bit hard to read (and shouts out that we had = trouble wordsmithing it). I was then trying to point out what the = essence of the statement is: The term JSON when used in a context that = implies interchange (as opposed to representing the concept of JSON = within a program or single system) also includes its encoding in UTF-8. = But I=E2=80=99m not trying to wordsmith here, I=E2=80=99ll leave that to = the native speakers. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Fri Jul 21 09:48:53 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43B5013188D for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 09:48:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=filament-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u0FDZ7RvYXoP for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 09:48:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-it0-x22a.google.com (mail-it0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9AD7A131723 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 09:48:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-it0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id h199so10219553ith.0 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 09:48:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=filament-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=f7XNKgkCRk1TKOQ4RcKXmhqxcvm5xJoBa5SYd+EwgqA=; b=f+2c1Mf6mJy3OHCE7ZmNaFP8B5nBWYcFFU81HPpZJfRyLYNpzJM3RkviNP6X/OLC60 zdk8ald1gRNTLRSBy3XpSF1uVXTFNNrligfoZcq2BKVHW1q0ZbwHuUBcOd1iz7VyzTAn 5JCb6n87KJ/d9RxfRTCRg0TT0a7VgPctnJQw8KX2UukX6pAked5OFizzYjeJA8rBDQ8b +o/oEluxq+ws1pHWGUIC839tpLOFV2dXJ6A+DFsEVOxxT4AR5eHz3USUJTCb8PJAbqg0 kZfApuXmJH4VHDaR4zaeavbfAXusHLvT+q4iwdO4kqYiAUeUC4AtYR44wH/f3b/B/aeF EPhg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=f7XNKgkCRk1TKOQ4RcKXmhqxcvm5xJoBa5SYd+EwgqA=; b=rzPAgrAxLLYHFHVdBLX6wfORIa4TOHWhThMb5D5+q2Pq7AvWfR7ndwMDN9cT7XlXIY 9+36MzD8z+fv1351fNS/s5uVPK9ZflXr/BnhnrBu0c/WqgAgr96N1kuHd/uVE4KiJ1hU qYQsPQAVmsLpq2DonRgLQEEG4xCNYXA5QUT3L7/F8IGXoQgE1bKm+htW5UzQu4yE+KpL Th5Wh1lXWC+gKRvJX8NkdZViMTR4VGLVrmoiaLuoMKuh7Iir2bnkR1KCip/3bhx1vjVV 3ZJzEtnmxVQAyAHCvv/hkTsDL1/YdaxQw0Y+7I3T5oYzhm01evqc2iQujyYT4Puyq+ux 0Pcg== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw113X6v+U/dWbwO1IawfqLtHQWHvTt4xmiA3l2ZOjN+wKf0RyeGi5 fn4GJ01a+meXTcm+/U0= X-Received: by 10.36.46.19 with SMTP id i19mr7543479ita.124.1500655730015; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 09:48:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aither.local ([2601:282:4202:67d3:9db5:67cc:4146:d455]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i202sm836511itb.5.2017.07.21.09.48.48 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 21 Jul 2017 09:48:48 -0700 (PDT) To: Carsten Bormann References: <150047191184.7507.7143481683564082881@ietfa.amsl.com> <262E8314-263A-4443-B912-AFCF1A3277B2@tzi.org> <166957c4-26fc-90b5-a798-59280c91b466@filament.com> <8B60039F-96DD-4F72-8139-D80B6F11566C@tzi.org> Cc: Julian Reschke , json@ietf.org From: Peter Saint-Andre - Filament Message-ID: Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 10:48:47 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8B60039F-96DD-4F72-8139-D80B6F11566C@tzi.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] I-D Action: draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-04.txt X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 16:48:52 -0000 On 7/21/17 10:07 AM, Carsten Bormann wrote: > On Jul 21, 2017, at 17:35, Peter Saint-Andre - Filament > wrote: >> >> Improvements over my suggested text are welcome. Or do you think >> that the text in -04 is good enough? I find it somewhat ambiguous. > > Hi Peter, > >>>> When an entity transmits JSON text over a network, e.g. as the >>>> payload of an application protocol, it MUST encode that text >>>> using UTF-8 [RFC3629]. > > … seems close enough for me. Great! I truly hesitated about posting to the list, but citing the Unicode spec for the definition of UTF-8 pushed me over the edge. :-) Peter From nobody Fri Jul 21 14:43:31 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 292801241FC for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 14:43:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.919 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.919 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.982, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Bf1tXnoMYc3z for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 14:43:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ppsa-online.com (lvps217-199-162-192.vps.webfusion.co.uk [217.199.162.192]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EA2C71201F2 for ; Fri, 21 Jul 2017 14:43:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 22122 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2017 22:35:10 +0100 Received: from host109-155-118-120.range109-155.btcentralplus.com (HELO ?192.168.1.72?) (109.155.118.120) by lvps217-199-162-217.vps.webfusion.co.uk with ESMTPSA (DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA encrypted, authenticated); 21 Jul 2017 22:35:10 +0100 To: Carsten Bormann Cc: Julian Reschke , json@ietf.org References: <150047191184.7507.7143481683564082881@ietfa.amsl.com> <262E8314-263A-4443-B912-AFCF1A3277B2@tzi.org> <2e6f5ead-1c20-d727-87a7-bbfe75ed4896@codalogic.com> <82da41d9-ab0b-ae9b-55f8-d17dc65bb61f@gmx.de> <899d8a84-a46e-e95a-6fe0-e5812655f5b8@codalogic.com> <2C2529CA-2F7F-422B-9DD7-4144F05AF88E@tzi.org> From: Pete Cordell Message-ID: <97472d4f-2189-9275-81e3-dfd67a46d8e5@codalogic.com> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 22:43:24 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <2C2529CA-2F7F-422B-9DD7-4144F05AF88E@tzi.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] I-D Action: draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-04.txt X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2017 21:43:30 -0000 On 21/07/2017 14:35, Carsten Bormann wrote: > On Jul 21, 2017, at 10:27, Pete Cordell wrote: >> >> Good point. How about: >> >> IETF-specified protocols and media associated with the >> application/json media type, MUST encode JSON text using UTF-8 >> [RFC3629]. > > This is not about the IETF. > > If I buy a Mercedes, I want to get a car built by Daimler-Benz. > If people send me JSON, I want to get JSON (the UTF-8 form that everyone uses). > > Now, there are other areas where, say, Mercedes is a woman’s name. There might even be a restaurant called “Mercedes’ kitchen". The objective cannot be that women or their restaurants no longer be called Mercedes (that the use of UTF-16 encoded JSON in C# or JavaScript becomes illegal). It’s just when you sell a car as a Mercedes (send me an object as JSON), I want to get a Mercedes (JSON). > > Consult a trade mark lawyer if that wasn’t clear :-) Well I'm familiar with trade mark classes, thank you very much. So I guess your rambling is trying to say JSON in the IETF class, is not the same as JSON in the ETSI class. ETSI defines JSON at the code point level, whereas IETF defines it at the UTF-8 character encoding level. However, I think your example illustrates that far from having the context of UTF-8 implied, we need to be explicit. While you might be expecting a car when you you say "I'll have the Mercedes," if I'm starving I might be very disappointed if I say "I'll have the Mercedes" and end up with a car instead of a meal. In the knowledge of such potential ambiguity you would be better saying "I'll have the Mercedes car," and I'd be better off saying "I'll have the Mercedes meal." This is especially so as both ETSI JSON and whatever we're calling what we're defining here, likely both fall into trade mark Class 9, and hence a trade mark lawyer would ban one or the other on the grounds that people could get confused by them. (If we really are saying the context is implicit, then all we need is: JSON text MUST be encoded using UTF-8 [RFC3629]. ) Pete Cordell Codalogic Ltd C++ tools for C++ programmers, http://codalogic.com Read & write XML in C++, http://www.xml2cpp.com From nobody Sat Jul 22 00:36:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED94F131BC2 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 2017 00:36:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.92 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.92 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.982, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NKWjCAM0m2BN for ; Sat, 22 Jul 2017 00:36:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ppsa-online.com (lvps217-199-162-192.vps.webfusion.co.uk [217.199.162.192]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DBC55126B6E for ; Sat, 22 Jul 2017 00:36:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 10551 invoked from network); 22 Jul 2017 08:28:25 +0100 Received: from host109-155-118-120.range109-155.btcentralplus.com (HELO ?192.168.1.72?) (109.155.118.120) by lvps217-199-162-217.vps.webfusion.co.uk with ESMTPSA (DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA encrypted, authenticated); 22 Jul 2017 08:28:24 +0100 To: Carsten Bormann , Peter Saint-Andre - Filament Cc: Julian Reschke , json@ietf.org References: <150047191184.7507.7143481683564082881@ietfa.amsl.com> <262E8314-263A-4443-B912-AFCF1A3277B2@tzi.org> <166957c4-26fc-90b5-a798-59280c91b466@filament.com> <8B60039F-96DD-4F72-8139-D80B6F11566C@tzi.org> From: Pete Cordell Message-ID: <3760a157-5b88-e334-712c-03eecd675794@codalogic.com> Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2017 08:36:39 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8B60039F-96DD-4F72-8139-D80B6F11566C@tzi.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] I-D Action: draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-04.txt X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2017 07:36:45 -0000 On 21/07/2017 17:07, Carsten Bormann wrote: > > It clearly has a nitpicking opportunity, but other attempts to improve the original text so far have made it worse. > I was mainly trying to point out that the mere fact that one can willfully pretend to misunderstand this (or the previous) text does not mean that it actually is ambiguous to a cooperating reader — the previous version is just a bit hard to read (and shouts out that we had trouble wordsmithing it). I was then trying to point out what the essence of the statement is: The term JSON when used in a context that implies interchange (as opposed to representing the concept of JSON within a program or single system) also includes its encoding in UTF-8. But I’m not trying to wordsmith here, I’ll leave that to the native speakers. You call it nitpicking, but I have struggled more times than I care to remember with lazy text in specs and I don't like to knowingly inflict it on others. Your person that is "willfully pretend[ing] to misunderstand" is more likely someone who is trying to understand the spec in the first place. I find it quite offensive to suggest that anyone that doesn't understand the wording the way you do is wilfully trying to misunderstand it. Here's another attempt, based on the feedback: JSON text that is to be machine interpreted in a layer of a protocol stack directly related to underlying network activity (e.g. JSON text in a REST over HTTP application, as opposed to JSON text transported opaquely over a generic data transfer protocol), and JSON text identified with the application/json media type, MUST be encoded using UTF-8 [RFC3629]. If nothing else, it shouts out better that we had trouble wordsmithing it ;-) Pete Cordell Codalogic Ltd C++ tools for C++ programmers, http://codalogic.com Read & write XML in C++, http://www.xml2cpp.com From nobody Sat Jul 22 00:51:44 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3641131C58 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 2017 00:51:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BUlNbSXeC_yn for ; Sat, 22 Jul 2017 00:51:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x244.google.com (mail-wm0-x244.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 22F62131C11 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 2017 00:51:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x244.google.com with SMTP id 184so6551369wmo.3 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 2017 00:51:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=/NqByzQsbA0lyPC+uFh1F9wksw4q4wlMiVzA3du1Pbk=; b=bHNxqU1tLeymtcS5gKILgZ8QmGG2/tKsVe0sv7boRhUz2ilDv6JRxndPFG7puNdo7N pVXyOknuWzGoZhtneUK0wfGOrMztNtkMBwjremHkXs9TvTLExK4Fe4RXrK8t8F/6dGfM dHALgRLPu+XG5bXXMjueAGfowhW34vlpTW/KNGBbeyXgq/qBh6ObVMOQAXJtFfZZH2ml B+RnLNbvFMd01jk3vLeeb5lXkUK3tbrA0SVBlw9/Rtjj1kAzwurv/lWlFQ59DH+2/PEA /RZhguxgw9Hw3yHe31lmDQrWpcvwriJGuhQKvWhPboRLEfc97bWMs3lt5mn/yGOtepuy 1vnw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=/NqByzQsbA0lyPC+uFh1F9wksw4q4wlMiVzA3du1Pbk=; b=GBfz3+e886fmkXos2cqkRKdRozqQCodGFHA+JG2QxOlETeXpMzSXPKtTX5DFvg3U5t 1SaRQnUyDs/GaaJpEz2eYWZXpEvusVthAt8WhuBwwA9ocDuNtV53kcY5pVk2IcZXoHFT 6SeZF3X6SNfneQiEhxNnSLuLW0Rao+uH36jUVRoxRI2WU6Mh4VJMEDDzx5O0w7Kzmvkg 1HHPj89uIf8bo9Hkle3lkRZVDdufUU1lBpJt3mt1oK9f7SmrEzyM07cSOF6hcnrpeFJk FArvc3SiA9TDkC8HWbkeVcMSt0MZ/4vreAy9YoI6Ll4ZQCqwxlawuMBMWCs+MOq4QNZH AfXA== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw112bdxT9zNWX9bzFmtTtHZEd12/hDoFG29aeO+Hkfjxm8TWQ2C15 MK6PdptK4lnO+emt X-Received: by 10.28.34.130 with SMTP id i124mr947282wmi.135.1500709899445; Sat, 22 Jul 2017 00:51:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.79] (25.131.146.77.rev.sfr.net. [77.146.131.25]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id e1sm9064991wrc.91.2017.07.22.00.51.38 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 22 Jul 2017 00:51:38 -0700 (PDT) To: Pete Cordell , Carsten Bormann , Peter Saint-Andre - Filament Cc: Julian Reschke , json@ietf.org References: <150047191184.7507.7143481683564082881@ietfa.amsl.com> <262E8314-263A-4443-B912-AFCF1A3277B2@tzi.org> <166957c4-26fc-90b5-a798-59280c91b466@filament.com> <8B60039F-96DD-4F72-8139-D80B6F11566C@tzi.org> <3760a157-5b88-e334-712c-03eecd675794@codalogic.com> From: Anders Rundgren Message-ID: <7a88952c-3e46-3f87-b3c2-2864f216c62d@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2017 09:51:36 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3760a157-5b88-e334-712c-03eecd675794@codalogic.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] I-D Action: draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-04.txt X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2017 07:51:43 -0000 On 2017-07-22 09:36, Pete Cordell wrote: > On 21/07/2017 17:07, Carsten Bormann wrote: > Here's another attempt, based on the feedback: > > JSON text that is to be machine interpreted in a layer of a protocol > stack directly related to underlying network activity (e.g. > JSON text in a REST over HTTP application, as opposed to JSON text > transported opaquely over a generic data transfer protocol), and > JSON text identified with the application/json media type, MUST be > encoded using UTF-8 [RFC3629]. I don't have any text to offer but I believe that UFT-8 encoding is the only recommendable way for transferring JSON data from one system to another which includes lots of other use case than HTTP. For example: Writing JSON to databases, usage in WebSocket messages, or simply putting JSON in file. Yes, it seems to me that "Serialized format"/"External representation" is really the common denominator rather than networks and/or protocols. Anders From nobody Sat Jul 22 00:53:47 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2542B131C58 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 2017 00:53:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aBzDLfUHQAiw for ; Sat, 22 Jul 2017 00:53:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7562C131C4F for ; Sat, 22 Jul 2017 00:53:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.20] ([93.217.127.232]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx101 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0M8IuM-1dlhTb1g4w-00vuqI; Sat, 22 Jul 2017 09:53:33 +0200 To: Pete Cordell , Carsten Bormann , Peter Saint-Andre - Filament Cc: json@ietf.org References: <150047191184.7507.7143481683564082881@ietfa.amsl.com> <262E8314-263A-4443-B912-AFCF1A3277B2@tzi.org> <166957c4-26fc-90b5-a798-59280c91b466@filament.com> <8B60039F-96DD-4F72-8139-D80B6F11566C@tzi.org> <3760a157-5b88-e334-712c-03eecd675794@codalogic.com> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <5890c540-ab1a-0080-5220-a72f628922d2@gmx.de> Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2017 09:53:30 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3760a157-5b88-e334-712c-03eecd675794@codalogic.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:s0vX3vJXu7OYgp3WIzl8DrTX4PrRnZ5K8/UJMb4ZkmItHd5SG6d sDYLQ1nsTYTOVrdKRfH/NhBQau1/iwQyWiFIw9ACuq9z7cIZqcxboUi9MqeW5NFXMQH2vC1 zYmqgozogks0bHAbDhguvPAzWFOUVNeoVl2gwNQbAj3WvEHdpH3uUzPzeT65kYpXzy4pFj+ Zx089nWxciMY5rXJc+NBg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:r+JM2+TN1pk=:aoYNHqnqYW3ZlNkwJDSgJw 82f/4CCq6Hh0MkbRxLU5ES5JvbF3K50TIIu+fSE17ORekda4+tGZALKGGvuFANSoXqR1LObwP 09QATlqxinCgCjjQX8CzF2or8q7ZGH8Q4hIPReuUqCJfB1r//tBaYyZEZZDSJ6yUuhE0A69zA sgru53xbwAHPrF5SsN7A1mm55bru85x7L5qpleYs5z9HuyludkCSY56oLkfCOzTaYdNaS9K/b gwXAVfem6rbvvKoL516Rl4ME2oak7METQZgXEpe2aY4cpYSaSHoe8V/N9AZ340RdINpqP3Utr QkRbYuV1I6tv+PWmO7HpzA9oGfczoeBodwilxPhPjjdpnwC2NPOVWxsmJfPnoPNF52Fo0hCIi o9Su9+1ygjbDn9Z8wdjepSsqwr9gJljdWQ+VAVUR1vJJQsK4rbwqmxC4O5gLofqvvALg7tLcK s4DGiAb6quY4jktYX4DgMw6pQtozIFNqktga4cbJ914uxluqhHL2kRgsLzR2fwzG+YudvgZDO rWsMtsNfYjiQ9lhvEKPo35yFFG+0ZSi7EpzpbS/cxJ+vz5XhV43Q3r/0G2IR16432zKP75Dc1 J0zLYXtIx0ALl+lApWRr93vUNShgaeXeGnmHX+zTlzA4Tpk+Vg9ei9Y4Y70MOa7Z+YNBpNX37 WjaijO7d/AvogbD62B/F2tHsYJ0LueX6UiEAYNNjTsWuFbSvZyxIpTtvjFohCqGVlim8PXP3B I+GTKpRrgAlCg3aXIzRtZ29DuNbQdVZcotND2/bjVpGn+ep+WLylz4Paox12wdb7TVVZV9XX9 1glMcmSs5M4+URkdtHcR4jpGX40Gy7FZlyfq6NJPAB0VQvWqRQ= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] I-D Action: draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-04.txt X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2017 07:53:45 -0000 On 2017-07-22 09:36, Pete Cordell wrote: > ... > JSON text that is to be machine interpreted in a layer of a protocol > stack directly related to underlying network activity (e.g. > JSON text in a REST over HTTP application, as opposed to JSON text > transported opaquely over a generic data transfer protocol), and > JSON text identified with the application/json media type, MUST be > encoded using UTF-8 [RFC3629]. > ... Whatever we say, it should make clear that it includes all derived media types (*/*+json) as well. Best regards, Julian From nobody Sat Jul 22 02:18:08 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BA681317C1 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 2017 02:18:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6u9KZpbYrI_d for ; Sat, 22 Jul 2017 02:18:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x231.google.com (mail-wm0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 209E0129AEB for ; Sat, 22 Jul 2017 02:18:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x231.google.com with SMTP id w191so23658295wmw.1 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 2017 02:18:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:references:from:to:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=VzOgISNkPZRZyAvpEl+c6P1BqpV+hU6r6z1SDFsiO84=; b=IUpK2aRJN85CHd7UX2BYSTAaAD4eVg+GbqBvzP9Xxltg1KuPkB6lnAt2x2xFvf3DXs USAztwQLBRASmCI/xAvniyb3YGywLzhnC2WxF2vCmfZ+SUso7oU4qGdktqr5/rnmllCU bes312EVigr1/lU0t3OgV1E/ydqrig/vjN1vT2nZ03eaWXvtZdtxrt8dW3A9zMBS1STf QCSCT0jl+D2KYfCRsmBjs88GNd3CNe+djS7jaoBmFHGYhbdfwHYiorVUQPuBiDeOg02G BUzQBV4rWrtTMpfLX/muWRhD7Tb5UBVvOh7dedNdQD+QkNoN1HsjSVltY915zr6A1v0c 9GDw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:references:from:to:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=VzOgISNkPZRZyAvpEl+c6P1BqpV+hU6r6z1SDFsiO84=; b=sPbsDxx/KQJEr2Tq8me5Fk/ksoU9lU5enWWXKEW9BwVbq0soMHzppo+Yuf/Q5mq/gM aexB0NUGsa2+ADeFi8dyFryXPhrNK3OmsT1AUEMedMO3paxEfLhrwj8pB3VyH+DPaRm9 Ua4ZyjYYkMXeiEKorzXqYHu6lCYEnjkkeCXcnY4OVFXv0sED9ZbWscB1kN+vGo/1gF5D t9t1eqCUPl793D9/4LkcVLhYVQMFb598EbeNxda3nGrUgpQ0cY+ixnLJIaB17pG7gIhv Pmn3JfkWvSlXoWGnc8xLSxXZ+brMROAN86/MtL338npErEsxQvpZVZxVCXqMuBgtXHHG ZjWA== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw112DrxvHnMseBQMb4H3EAv6YxbQhVuolCbxF8AjitOJjfYyM5Puy Dp2fzhdsJKuX2u2u X-Received: by 10.28.19.207 with SMTP id 198mr1054366wmt.166.1500715084405; Sat, 22 Jul 2017 02:18:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.79] (25.131.146.77.rev.sfr.net. [77.146.131.25]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id q185sm5558772wmd.19.2017.07.22.02.18.03 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 22 Jul 2017 02:18:03 -0700 (PDT) References: <150047191184.7507.7143481683564082881@ietfa.amsl.com> <262E8314-263A-4443-B912-AFCF1A3277B2@tzi.org> <166957c4-26fc-90b5-a798-59280c91b466@filament.com> <8B60039F-96DD-4F72-8139-D80B6F11566C@tzi.org> <3760a157-5b88-e334-712c-03eecd675794@codalogic.com> From: Anders Rundgren To: json@ietf.org Message-ID: <75178e2b-f727-2e2e-796d-8e0bc7976bf7@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2017 11:18:02 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3760a157-5b88-e334-712c-03eecd675794@codalogic.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: [Json] Serializing to File? Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-04.txt X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2017 09:18:07 -0000 Since the most basic use case of all obviously doesn't work well if people use different character encodings (unless you do "byte sniffing" which seems like a bad thing to *have* to do). I would consider "external form" as an alternative to limiting the specification to special cases like networks and or protocols. Just my two "öres". Anders From nobody Mon Jul 24 08:12:39 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: json@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A134131E06 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2017 08:12:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.92 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.92 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.982, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kEq7YWbrHe35 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2017 08:12:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ppsa-online.com (lvps217-199-162-192.vps.webfusion.co.uk [217.199.162.192]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2AC9C131DAA for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2017 08:12:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 9428 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2017 16:04:15 +0100 Received: from host109-155-118-120.range109-155.btcentralplus.com (HELO ?192.168.1.72?) (109.155.118.120) by lvps217-199-162-217.vps.webfusion.co.uk with ESMTPSA (DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA encrypted, authenticated); 24 Jul 2017 16:04:15 +0100 To: Anders Rundgren Cc: Julian Reschke , json@ietf.org References: <150047191184.7507.7143481683564082881@ietfa.amsl.com> <262E8314-263A-4443-B912-AFCF1A3277B2@tzi.org> <166957c4-26fc-90b5-a798-59280c91b466@filament.com> <8B60039F-96DD-4F72-8139-D80B6F11566C@tzi.org> <3760a157-5b88-e334-712c-03eecd675794@codalogic.com> <7a88952c-3e46-3f87-b3c2-2864f216c62d@gmail.com> From: Pete Cordell Message-ID: <9cddf2e7-f987-3942-3580-05c3da6a4805@codalogic.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2017 16:12:29 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <7a88952c-3e46-3f87-b3c2-2864f216c62d@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Json] I-D Action: draft-ietf-jsonbis-rfc7159bis-04.txt X-BeenThere: json@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "JavaScript Object Notation \(JSON\) WG mailing list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2017 15:12:38 -0000 On 22/07/2017 08:51, Anders Rundgren wrote: > I don't have any text to offer but I believe that UFT-8 encoding is the > only recommendable way for transferring JSON data from one system to > another which includes lots of other use case than HTTP. For example: > Writing JSON to databases, usage in WebSocket messages, or simply putting > JSON in file. > > Yes, it seems to me that "Serialized format"/"External representation" is > really the common denominator rather than networks and/or protocols. And: On 22/07/2017 10:18, Anders Rundgren wrote: > I would consider "external form" as an alternative to limiting the > specification > to special cases like networks and or protocols. And: On 22/07/2017 08:53, Julian Reschke wrote: > Whatever we say, it should make clear that it includes all derived > media types (*/*+json) as well. Thanks Anders and Julian. Makes me wonder whether the best approach is to start with what is currently the second paragraph of 8.1 as a 'softener', and then hit the reader with UTF-8 being the only real way to go for interoperability of open systems. So maybe 8.1 becomes something like: 8.1. Character Encoding Previous specifications of JSON have not required the use of UTF-8 when transmitting JSON text. However, the vast majority of JSON- based software implementations have chosen to use the UTF-8 encoding, to the extent that it is the only encoding that achieves interoperability. Therefore, JSON text exchanged between systems that don't form a closed ecosystem MUST be encoded using UTF-8. Implementations MUST NOT add a byte order mark (U+FEFF) to the beginning of a networked-transmitted JSON text. In the interests of interoperability, implementations that parse JSON texts MAY ignore the presence of a byte order mark rather than treating it as an error. Cheers, Pete.