Subject: Re: processing of "speculative" key ids: MAY -> SHOULD�MUST

From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 07:31:43 -0500 (EST)

[email-masked] wrote on Fri, 21 Jan 2000 01:16:05 +0900:

 >let's not get into a discussion of nym servers here though.  (i hope
 >you didn't mean "anonymous remailer" when you mentioned "nym-server",
 >because to me those two are not the same.)

Sorry for my sloppy usage of nomenclature: What I meant was
remailing via mixmaster chaining (see e.g.
"http://www.obscura.com/~loki/remailer/mixmaster-faq.html").

 >speculative key ids can be useful in the context of a mailing list
 >that has its own keypair plus the public keys of all recipients.  it
 >can prevent people from finding out who all of the subscribers are via
 >the interception of a single message ...

Clever idea! I had not thought about this type of usage.

I admit that in this context, speculative key ids would gain us
something that could not easily be done otherwise.

 >i think the burden of proof of uniqueness of usefulness is not
 >on me ;-)

If you want to have added something into a standard, you should
be aware that this addition causes at least additional work for
implementors (and may have other "side effects" as well).
Therefore, I consider it only fair that the "suggestor" has to
point out all the wonderful advantages that his/her suggestion
brings with it.

So, in some way, the burden of proof of usefulness _is_ on you.
But it may well be that all the other members of this mailing
list were already aware of the advantage of speculative key ids
that you mentioned, and I am the only one who had not seen this.
If this is the case, then shame on me! :-(

- Wolfgang Redtenbacher

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Redtenbacher Software                Tel.:   +49 7159 17046
Roemerstr. 11/1                      Fax:    +49 7159 17047
D-71272 Renningen                    e-mail: [email-masked]
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---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 01:18:57 +0900

thanks for the response.  sorry for the delayed response.  my comments
follow.

> i think the burden of proof of uniqueness of usefulness is not

wolfgang> If you want to have added something into a standard, you should
wolfgang> be aware that this addition causes at least additional work for
wolfgang> implementors (and may have other "side effects" as well).
wolfgang> Therefore, I consider it only fair that the "suggestor" has to
wolfgang> point out all the wonderful advantages that his/her suggestion
wolfgang> brings with it.

i agree w/ that mostly, i think it is very reasonable.  i hope that
you would accept "some of the wonderful advantages" as i don't presume
to be able to foresee all of the consequences of ideas ;-)

i would hope that after some initial discussion, the working group
could enumerate a more comprehensive list of advantages and
disadvantages.

wolfgang> So, in some way, the burden of proof of usefulness _is_ on you.

i agree that usefulness should be shown -- i will try, but after reaching a
certain point, i hope the burden is not all mine!

[ but i didn't make any claim about burden of usefulness -- what i
was referring to was burden of proof of uniqueness of a particular use:

wolfgang> Speculative key ids are only helpful when used together with
                                  ^^^^
wolfgang> nym-servers (as otherwise the mail headers would permit the
wolfgang> traffic analysis that the sender wants to avoid). 

sorry if that seemed picky, but uniqueness is one of those things to
be picky about, i think ]

i would like to reiterate one of my earlier points:

> also, openpgp doesn't have to be used only for mail.

to enumerate a couple of non-mail-related ideas:

  -a pam module which uses pgp key pairs in a challenge-and-response
   authentication scheme.  iirc, ssh2 has something similar (that explicitly
   mentions openpgp) in section 4.6 of

     draft-ietf-secsh-transport-06.txt

  -pgp tickets:

     draft-moscaritolo-mione-pgpticket

  -encrypted irc sessions -- an automated participant (bot) w/ a key
   pair and public keys of potential participants hands out public-key-encrypted
   session keys to those who can authenticate (using openpgp 
   challenge-and-response).  participants send out messages encrypted
   using the session key.  to read a message, each participant decrypts 
   using the session key.  session keys are regenerated periodically
   and retrieved by clients who can authenticate.

i suspect one of the main potential uses of speculative key ids is
supporting anonymity and prevention of traffic analysis.  if that is
indeed the case, combined w/ the fact that openpgp can be used in a
number of different domains (mail and non-mail) i hope that people
would be supportive (or perhaps considerate?) of speculative key ids.

perhaps you were already aware of these ideas and i was reading too
much into your words...my apologies if so.

wolfgang> But it may well be that all the other members of this mailing
wolfgang> list were already aware of the advantage of speculative key ids
wolfgang> that you mentioned, and I am the only one who had not seen this.
wolfgang> If this is the case, then shame on me! :-(

if i may be so bold, i would not be surprised if a few people hadn't
thought it through yet, but the fact that speculative key ids exist in
the rfc suggests that the idea seemed useful enough to some -- sorry i
don't know the history of speculative ids, perhaps someone can
enlighten me?

but back to the original point, i agree that MUST is a bad idea for
speculative ids.  i propose that at least there be some mentioning of
potential interoperability issues regarding the use of speculative key
ids for certain types of situations (to be elaborated on?).  i also
think it would be worth recommending that processing support be
available -- but that it does not have to be used.

is this a reasonable suggestion?

From: [email-masked]
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: processing of "speculative" key ids: MAY -> SHOULD�MUST
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 01:18:57 +0900
Lines: 89
Sender: [email-masked]

thanks for the response.  sorry for the delayed response.  my comments
follow.

> i think the burden of proof of uniqueness of usefulness is not

wolfgang> If you want to have added something into a standard, you should
wolfgang> be aware that this addition causes at least additional work for
wolfgang> implementors (and may have other "side effects" as well).
wolfgang> Therefore, I consider it only fair that the "suggestor" has to
wolfgang> point out all the wonderful advantages that his/her suggestion
wolfgang> brings with it.

i agree w/ that mostly, i think it is very reasonable.  i hope that
you would accept "some of the wonderful advantages" as i don't presume
to be able to foresee all of the consequences of ideas ;-)

i would hope that after some initial discussion, the working group
could enumerate a more comprehensive list of advantages and
disadvantages.

wolfgang> So, in some way, the burden of proof of usefulness _is_ on you.

i agree that usefulness should be shown -- i will try, but after reaching a
certain point, i hope the burden is not all mine!

[ but i didn't make any claim about burden of usefulness -- what i
was referring to was burden of proof of uniqueness of a particular use:

wolfgang> Speculative key ids are only helpful when used together with
                                  ^^^^
wolfgang> nym-servers (as otherwise the mail headers would permit the
wolfgang> traffic analysis that the sender wants to avoid). 

sorry if that seemed picky, but uniqueness is one of those things to
be picky about, i think ]

i would like to reiterate one of my earlier points:

> also, openpgp doesn't have to be used only for mail.

to enumerate a couple of non-mail-related ideas:

  -a pam module which uses pgp key pairs in a challenge-and-response
   authentication scheme.  iirc, ssh2 has something similar (that explicitly
   mentions openpgp) in section 4.6 of

     draft-ietf-secsh-transport-06.txt

  -pgp tickets:

     draft-moscaritolo-mione-pgpticket

  -encrypted irc sessions -- an automated participant (bot) w/ a key
   pair and public keys of potential participants hands out public-key-encrypted
   session keys to those who can authenticate (using openpgp 
   challenge-and-response).  participants send out messages encrypted
   using the session key.  to read a message, each participant decrypts 
   using the session key.  session keys are regenerated periodically
   and retrieved by clients who can authenticate.

i suspect one of the main potential uses of speculative key ids is
supporting anonymity and prevention of traffic analysis.  if that is
indeed the case, combined w/ the fact that openpgp can be used in a
number of different domains (mail and non-mail) i hope that people
would be supportive (or perhaps considerate?) of speculative key ids.

perhaps you were already aware of these ideas and i was reading too
much into your words...my apologies if so.

wolfgang> But it may well be that all the other members of this mailing
wolfgang> list were already aware of the advantage of speculative key ids
wolfgang> that you mentioned, and I am the only one who had not seen this.
wolfgang> If this is the case, then shame on me! :-(

if i may be so bold, i would not be surprised if a few people hadn't
thought it through yet, but the fact that speculative key ids exist in
the rfc suggests that the idea seemed useful enough to some -- sorry i
don't know the history of speculative ids, perhaps someone can
enlighten me?

but back to the original point, i agree that MUST is a bad idea for
speculative ids.  i propose that at least there be some mentioning of
potential interoperability issues regarding the use of speculative key
ids for certain types of situations (to be elaborated on?).  i also
think it would be worth recommending that processing support be
available -- but that it does not have to be used.

is this a reasonable suggestion?

Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 05:44:17 -0800
From: Kent Crispin <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?processing_of_=22speculative=22_key_ids:_MAY_-=3E_SHOULD?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?=A6MUST?=
Mail-Followup-To: [email-masked]
Sender: [email-masked]

On Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 01:16:05AM +0900, [email-masked] wrote:
[...]
> the interception of a single message -- yes, it would be possible to
> generate a message per person, but as you have mentioned, performance
> will suffer.

Do you have some quantification of the performance hit? I'm not sure it
is such a big deal to send an individual message to each list member --
note that some popular list managment packages will put the address you
are subscribed from at the bottom of a message, which means, I believe,
that they are sending a different message to each list member. 

-- 
Kent Crispin                               "Do good, and you'll be
[email-masked]                           lonesome." -- Mark Twain

From: [email-masked]
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked], [email-masked]
Subject: Re: processing of "speculative" key ids: MAY -> SHOULD|MUST
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:56:38 +0900
Lines: 107
Sender: [email-masked]

>the interception of a single message ...

wolfgang> Clever idea! I had not thought about this type of usage.
wolfgang> 
wolfgang> I admit that in this context, speculative key ids would gain us
wolfgang> something that could not easily be done otherwise.

dpkemp> I'm missing something.  Doesn't a message from a mail list
dpkemp> server to a single recipient contain no information which would
dpkemp> indicate the existence of other recipient(s)?

you may already know the following, but for reference, the way that
encrypting a message (using rfc 2440 methods) to several recipients
works is roughly:

  1) a session key is generated to encrypt the message,

  2) the message is symmetrically encrypted using the session key,

  3) the session key is encrypted using the public keys of the recipients
     and the results of these encryptions are all bundled into the
     final message

by default the keyids of recipients are included in the final package
because they are contained in the public-key-encrypted session keys
(see section 5.1 of the rfc).

this is positive from a performance perspective because it means that
the receiving end does not have to try to decrypt any extra encrypted
session keys -- it only has to try decrypting encrypted session keys
for key ids that it has secret keys for.  if there are a lot of
recipients this can make a significant difference, as has been pointed out
by [email-masked].

it is negative from the perspective of trying to prevent traffic
analysis because the key ids of all recipients are available to anyone
who intercepts the message.

(a classic see-saw case perhaps?)

consider the following (rough) design [2] of a mailing list w/ a key
pair:

  -the public key of each subscriber is available to the list software
   (i'm not fond of suggesting that the public keys can be obtained
   via keyservers but it is a possibility that i heard very recently)

  -messages to the list can be encrypted using the public key of
   the list -- messages can also be signed by subscribers and
   verified by the list if desired using the public keys of the
   subscribers

  -incoming messages are decrypted [1] using the private key of the list,
   then the resulting plain text is encrypted using the method described 
   above using the public keys of the subscribers.  

   the simplest method to implement involves just sending the single
   resulting message body to all recipients -- however, if speculative 
   key ids are not used, the message will contain a key id for each
   recipient.

   so this situation is actually worse than a no-encryption vanilla
   mailing list from an anti-traffic-analysis perspective.  for a
   vanilla mailing list, you typically would not learn this from 
   interception of the message body alone.

   it is possible to split up the single rfc 2440 message into parts, 
   and reassemble as many messages as there are subscribers in such a way
   so that the message sent to each subscriber only contains the
   session-key-encrypted message and the public-key-encrypted session
   key for the subscriber only (thus leaving out all other 
   public-key-encrypted session keys) -- conceptually this is a very
   straight-forward operation.  each subscriber can then be sent a separate
   message.

   note, it is still nice to have speculative key ids at this point so that 
   interception of the message body does not give away the key id of the 
   recipient -- header information can be removed by other mechanisms such 
   as anonymous remailers.

   the message splitting and reassembly would be greatly simplified if 
   there were good, open libraries for manipulating rfc 2440 packets
   (are there any?) or if pgp or gnupg contained the functionality already.  
   it doesn't seem like the splitting and reassembling should require much 
   in terms of processing power as this doesn't involve anything as 
   complicated as encryption/decryption -- it's basically parsing and gluing.
   
   however, making existing arbitrary mailing list software send out a
   different message to each subscriber is not necessarily easy.

p.s. [email-masked], thank you for your reply, i will reply in
     full later.  need to catch up on sleep first!

[1] note that w/ a moderator that can decrypt the list's secret key,
    it is possible to arrange things so that the secret key does not live
    on the server (though this means that if the moderator is not active,
    the list sends out no traffic).

[2] note that this design has appeared in a number of different places,
    including this list, in the past.

From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 08:41:10 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: processing of "speculative" key ids: MAY -> SHOULD �MUST
To: [email-masked]
Sender: [email-masked]

Werner Koch <[email-masked]> wrote on Fri, 21 Jan 2000 10:59:10 +0100:

 >How do you get the passphrases in the secure memory? I see no way to
 >do this without manual operator action - and this prevents automatic
 >restart of machines after power failure etc.

On first start-up, the passphrases have to be entered by the
operator manually. Then they are stored in memory and
additionally in symmetrically encrypted form on the disk. The
passphrase for symmetric encryption is derived from machine and
configuration specific data (in a way I do not intend to publish)
to ensure that simply stealing the encrypted password file
is of no help to a thief.

If a power failure has occured, the restarting mail-server reads
the saved table from disk into secure memory and decrypts it. If
decryption fails (e.g. due to a changed machine), the passphrases
for all keys are asked again.

The details are on my website "www.redtenbacher.de/signatur/"
in the section "Die Sicht des Programmierers" (The programmer's
view), sub-section "Passwortverwaltung, -speicherung und
Diebstahlschutz" (Password administration, storage and protection
against theft).

This approach has, of course, some drawbacks:

(a) The protection of the password file depends essentially on a
    secret algorithm - something that will be disliked by any PKI
    purist.
(b) I (as the author of the secret algorithm) would be able to
    steal the passphrases if I ever got physical access to the
    mail-server for long enough to determine all those machine
    and configuration characteristics that are used in
    deriving the symmetric password.

Therefore my solution certainly would not be acceptable to the
research division of a major company or any secret service :-)
It is, however, a very workable approach to ensure safe Internet
transport of non-classified communication between city
administrations and citizens as it guarantees for e-mail at least
the same level of security that currently exists for paper mail.
(The city administrations assume that on the Internet, a high
level of protection is needed whereas inside the house, a
moderate level of protection is okay - see
"www.redtenbacher.de/signatur/intro.htm")

- Wolfgang Redtenbacher

From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 07:31:43 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: processing of "speculative" key ids: MAY -> SHOULD�MUST
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Sender: [email-masked]

- Wolfgang Redtenbacher

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 10:59:10 +0100
From: Werner Koch <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?processing_of_=22speculative=22_key_ids:_MAY_-=3E_SHOULD?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?=A6MUST?=
Mail-Followup-To: [email-masked]
Sender: [email-masked]

On Thu, 20 Jan 2000, [email-masked] wrote:

> I vote for staying with the current wording. The suggested change

me too.

> To be able to do automatic decryption of incoming mails, the
> mail-server "knows" all secret key ids and their PGP passwords
> (stored in secure memory, of course). It scans the incoming mail

How do you get the passphrases in the secure memory?  I see no way to
do this without manual operator action - and this prevents automatic
restart of machines after power failure etc.  

-- 
Werner Koch at guug.de           www.gnupg.org           keyid 621CC013
  
     Boycott Amazon!  -  http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/amazon.html

From: [email-masked]
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: processing of "speculative" key ids: MAY -> SHOULD�MUST
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 01:16:05 +0900
Lines: 70
Sender: [email-masked]

wolfgang> I vote for staying with the current wording. The suggested change
wolfgang> might be only a small overhead for a program like PGP or GnuPG,
wolfgang> but the change (especially with a "MUST") creates a major
wolfgang> performance penalty for "wrapper" programs in mail-servers.

hmm, for the case of "MUST", i agree w/ you.  you are right.  i see
that "MUST" may cause performance problems for this type of case.

wolfgang> If zero key ids become obligatory, it has to test all keys on the
wolfgang> secret key ring (potentially containing a _lot_ of keys for a
wolfgang> major city administration). While this testing might be an
wolfgang> acceptable overhead for PGP/GnuPG, it is a much bigger overhead
wolfgang> for the "wrapper application" which can only test 1 key per
wolfgang> PGP/GnuPG call.

then perhaps "SHOULD" is in order, and not "MUST".  in the current
state, speculative keyids are not very useful/practical for endusers
because of the lack of support in pgp (unless all parties are using
gnupg).

another way to deal w/ this would be for gnupg (and other
implementations) to be able to make certain key ids speculative
(i.e. key ids for gnupg users) and to leave others alone (i.e. key ids
for pgp users).  at least interoperability would be obtained this way
-- but it doesn't change the sad state that pgp users are easier to
"spy on" so-to-speak.  but it seems silly for gnupg to implement
selective keeping or throwing of key ids for a (imo) deficiency in pgp
(i have yet to verify this on all versions so if someone knows
otherwise, please let me know).

is it possible to recommend (or require) the inclusion of support for
processing of speculative key ids in the case of implementations for
enduser software such as pgp and gnupg (what would be an appropriate
term to distinguish this class of software from the type you have
implemented?)?

i think there should at least be some mention in the rfc of potential
interoperability problems in enduser-to-enduser situations if
speculative keyids are not supported on both ends.

wolfgang> Speculative key ids are only helpful when used together with
wolfgang> nym-servers (as otherwise the mail headers would permit the
wolfgang> traffic analysis that the sender wants to avoid). Using
wolfgang> nym-servers in a proper way, however, can avoid traffic analysis
wolfgang> even with "normal key ids". So the "speculative key id" feature
wolfgang> does not really gain anything new.

i don't agree that they are only useful in this case.  further there
are problems w/ nym servers as is -- nym servers as they currently
exist are not adequate for certain purposes.

speculative key ids can be useful in the context of a mailing list
that has its own keypair plus the public keys of all recipients.  it
can prevent people from finding out who all of the subscribers are via
the interception of a single message -- yes, it would be possible to
generate a message per person, but as you have mentioned, performance
will suffer.  this kind of setup combined w/ anonymous remailers
(preferably something like type-ii or better) would be quite useful.

also, openpgp doesn't have to be used only for mail.

i think the burden of proof of uniqueness of usefulness is not on me
;-)

thanks for your comments!

From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 10:17:01 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: processing of "speculative" key ids: MAY -> SHOULD�MUST
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Sender: [email-masked]

[email-masked] wrote on Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:56:26 +0900:

 >  An implementation MAY accept or use a Key ID of zero as a "wild card"
 >  or "speculative" Key ID. In this case, the receiving implementation
 >  would try all available private keys, checking for a valid decrypted
 >  session key. This format helps reduce traffic analysis of messages.
 >
 >i think the use of MAY here seriously undermines the usefulness of the
 >"speculative" key id.  i think it would be better if implementations
 >SHOULD (or even better MUST) process "speculative" key ids.

I vote for staying with the current wording. The suggested change
might be only a small overhead for a program like PGP or GnuPG,
but the change (especially with a "MUST") creates a major
performance penalty for "wrapper" programs in mail-servers.

One of my programs is a mail-server with automatic
encryption/decryption. To avoid having to "re-invent the wheel",
I use PGP resp. GnuPG (depending on the customer's wishes) for
the actual en-/decryption.

To be able to do automatic decryption of incoming mails, the
mail-server "knows" all secret key ids and their PGP passwords
(stored in secure memory, of course). It scans the incoming mail
for the recipient ids and then calls PGP/GnuPG with the
appropriate password for the actual decryption.

If zero key ids become obligatory, it has to test all keys on the
secret key ring (potentially containing a _lot_ of keys for a
major city administration). While this testing might be an
acceptable overhead for PGP/GnuPG, it is a much bigger overhead
for the "wrapper application" which can only test 1 key per
PGP/GnuPG call.

Speculative key ids are only helpful when used together with
nym-servers (as otherwise the mail headers would permit the
traffic analysis that the sender wants to avoid). Using
nym-servers in a proper way, however, can avoid traffic analysis
even with "normal key ids". So the "speculative key id" feature
does not really gain anything new.

Therefore, let us not create performance penalties to gain "just
another way of doing something we could have done already all
along".

- Wolfgang Redtenbacher

Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:56:35 +0100
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ulf_M=F6ller?= <[email-masked]>
To: Jon Callas <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis-00.txt
Sender: [email-masked]

On Tue, Jan 18, 2000 at 02:18:52PM -0800, Jon Callas wrote:

> >You need to observe the changes in terminology if you refer to the new
> >PKCS #1.
> 
> Could you do me the favor of telling me what the changes in terminology
> are? If I have to guess at what you'd like, I will probably disappoint you.

PKCS #1 v2.0 speaks of "encoding methods" rather than "padding", and
"block type 02" is now called EME-PKCS1-v1_5.  EMSA-PKCS1-v1_5 means
making the DigestInfo and encoding it according to what was previously
called "block type 01".

> >The notes about backward compatibility don't mention that PGP 2
> >requires certain formats for some packet types.

> I've just spent a half-hour on this. I know that PGP 2 compatibility
> requires old length types, V3 data structures (keys and sigs), and only
> RSA, MD5, and IDEA. Is this what you want me to say in a hint? Is there
> something more subtle that I'm forgetting, but once you mention it I'll
> say, "Duh, of course"?

For example key and signature packets must use length type 1, it
doesn't accept length type 0.  I descibed that on this list quite some
time ago.

> >The security notes should mention that only v3 RSA signatures are bound to
> >the hash algorithm, so that v4/DSA signatures can be forged if any one of
> >the hash algorithms is broken, even if the signer doesn't use that algorithm.
> 
> I think I'm confused here. Suppose I have an implementation that does DSA
> with SHA-1. Let us also suppose that Tiger gets broken. How does this
> affect my DSA/SHA signature?

Then if I want to forge a signature, I find a message for which the
Tiger hash value is identical to your original SHA-1 hash.  Unless
your original signature was a v3 RSA signature, nothing in OpenPGP
prevents me from setting the hash algorithm identifier for that
message to Tiger.  That's why the RSA value in PKCS #1 contains a
DigestInfo, and why the DSS specifies SHA-1 as the only signature
algorithm.  Putting the hash algorithm identifier in the data
protected by that very hash algorithm is pointless.

That clearly is a cryptographic weakness in the protocol, so it has to
be mentioned in the RFC. (By the way, OpenPGP allows MD2 as a hash
algorithm without a warning about its security, so this attack may
well be practical. But even if the verifying implementation only
accepts algorithms that are not known to be insecure, allowing the
attacker to chose a hash algorithm makes the protocol weaker not
stronger.)

Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:36:56 -0800
To: Paul Hoffman / IMC <[email-masked]>
From: "John  W. Noerenberg" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: The OpenPGP mailing list has moved
Cc: [email-masked]
Sender: [email-masked]

At 11:14 AM -0800 1/18/00, Paul Hoffman / IMC wrote:
>I didn't hear back from the WG chair, but I decided to fix the problem anyway.
>
>The new mailing address is:
>      [email-masked]
>(note the lack of the second dash). Sending to the old address will 
>get you (or, more likely, the spammers) a simple message with the 
>new address. I hope the spammers don't read bounce messages.
>
>I'll inform the IETF Secretariat of the change.
>
>The WG web page is at <http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/>.

Thanks, Paul.

>
>--Paul Hoffman, Director
>--Internet Mail Consortium

-- 

john noerenberg
[email-masked]
   ----------------------------------------------------------------------
   But now I know our world is no more permanent
   than a wave rising on the ocean.
   -- Arthur Golden, "Memoirs of a Geisha", 1997
   ----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [email-masked]
Subject: processing of "speculative" key ids: MAY -> SHOULD|MUST
To: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:56:26 +0900
Lines: 26
Sender: [email-masked]

in section 5.1 i see:

   An implementation MAY accept or use a Key ID of zero as a "wild card"
   or "speculative" Key ID. In this case, the receiving implementation
   would try all available private keys, checking for a valid decrypted
   session key. This format helps reduce traffic analysis of messages.

i think the use of MAY here seriously undermines the usefulness of the
"speculative" key id.  i think it would be better if implementations
SHOULD (or even better MUST) process "speculative" key ids.

gnupg supports generation and processing, but since pgp doesn't seem
to handle processing (please correct me if i'm wrong on this point),
speculative key ids are not very useful when conversing w/ folks using
pgp.

to any active developers of pgp: please add at least processing of
speculative ids to pgp!  it shouldn't be hard at all.  it could even
be made a user option.

generation shouldn't be hard either -- it's just a matter of zeroing
some bytes.

p.s. if there are any other implementations of rfc 2440 out there in
use, same comment goes for them too if they don't support the
processing of speculative key ids.

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:18:52 -0800
To: Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=  <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]
From: Jon Callas <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-openpgp-rfc2440bis-00.txt
Sender: [email-masked]

At 8:40 PM +0100 12/23/99, Ulf M�ller wrote:
>   PKCS-1 block type 02 [RFC2437] (Was: [RFC2313]) to form the "m"
>   value used in the formulas above.
>
>You need to observe the changes in terminology if you refer to the new
>PKCS #1.

Could you do me the favor of telling me what the changes in terminology
are? If I have to guess at what you'd like, I will probably disappoint you.

>
>The signature packet format is still specified as including "zero or
>more subpackets", but the subpacket hints section mentions in passing
>that two packets are mandatory.

Done.

>
>The notes about backward compatibility don't mention that PGP 2
>requires certain formats for some packet types.
>

The RFC isn't a how-to guide for writing PGP 2 compatible applications. We
don't even *require* it, although we encourage it, even to the point of
allowing an exception for the sake of interoperability. There are a number
of hints and guidelines scattered all through the document about what PGP 2
can and can't accept. I know it's not comprehensive, and never will be;
that is not a goal of OpenPGP and never has been. However, if there's
something glaring that we've overlooked, or something that tripped you up,
I'm more than willing to put it in.

One of the reasons I keep saying "tell me what you want" is that I'm really
close to the issue. I've poured over the document a zillion times, and I
know there are things that seem perfectly obvious to me that aren't to
other people. It's hard for me to know which ones those are. My opinion is
that if someone else finds a part of the RFC confusing, incomplete,
inobvious, or just plain brain-dead, then it is! I will fix it.

I've just spent a half-hour on this. I know that PGP 2 compatibility
requires old length types, V3 data structures (keys and sigs), and only
RSA, MD5, and IDEA. Is this what you want me to say in a hint? Is there
something more subtle that I'm forgetting, but once you mention it I'll
say, "Duh, of course"?

>I don't think the note
>     * (Added:) PGP 2.6.X and 5.0 do not trim trailing whitespace from a
>       "canonical text" signature. They only remove it from cleartext
>       signatures.
>is particularly clear on how to interoperate.
>

If you don't think it's particularly clear, then it isn't. I'll hazard a
guess here. OpenPGP requires that a canonical text signature trim trailing
whitespace. These old versions do not. Consequently, if you see a canonical
text signature, then you have a number of choices, among them are: (1) Flag
it as a mal-formed message, and thus an error. (2) Compute the signature
using the trailing white space. (3) Compute the signature with white space,
and if that fails, re-compute it without white space.

I can't tell you as an implementer which is the right one. As a user, I'd
prefer you did (3), as it follows the principle of being liberal in what
you accept. However, I don't blame you if you roll your eyes as a developer
and say that you don't want to do that. The RFC doesn't require you to be
nice, and you may have a lot of good reasons for not doing that. (As an
example, you may be working on a constrained platform, like a pager or a
handheld, and you don't want to bloat your code.)

I intended the the note to be a heads-up that you may see a signature that
is  not RFC 2440 compliant. How you handle it is your business; I'm not
going to tell you how to write your code (but I may say, "I would have
decided differently."). It's your decision.

I've changed the paragraph to:

PGP 2.6.X and 5.0 do not trim trailing whitespace from a "canonical text"
signature. They only remove it from cleartext signatures. These signatures
are not OpenPGP compliant -- OpenPGP requires trimming the white space. If
you wish to interoperate with PGP 2.6.X or PGP 5, you may wish to accept
these non-compliant signatures.

Feel free to make edits or additions.

>The security notes should mention that only v3 RSA signatures are bound to
>the hash algorithm, so that v4/DSA signatures can be forged if any one of
>the hash algorithms is broken, even if the signer doesn't use that algorithm.

I think I'm confused here. Suppose I have an implementation that does DSA
with SHA-1. Let us also suppose that Tiger gets broken. How does this
affect my DSA/SHA signature?

	Jon

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:14:33 -0800
To: [email-masked]
From: Paul Hoffman / IMC <[email-masked]>
Subject: The OpenPGP mailing list has moved
Sender: [email-masked]

I didn't hear back from the WG chair, but I decided to fix the problem anyway.

The new mailing address is:
      [email-masked]
(note the lack of the second dash). Sending to the old address will get you 
(or, more likely, the spammers) a simple message with the new address. I 
hope the spammers don't read bounce messages.

I'll inform the IETF Secretariat of the change.

The WG web page is at <http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/>.

--Paul Hoffman, Director
--Internet Mail Consortium

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:50:30 -0800
To: [email-masked]
From: Paul Hoffman / IMC <[email-masked]>
Subject: The OpenPGP mailing list has moved
Sender: [email-masked]

I didn't hear back from the WG chair, but I decided to fix the problem anyway.

The new mailing address is:
      [email-masked]
(note the lack of the second dash). Sending to the old address will get you 
(or, more likely, the spammers) a simple message with the new address. I 
hope the spammers don't read bounce messages.

I'll inform the IETF Secretariat of the change.

The WG web page is at <http://www.imc.org/ietf-openpgp/>.

--Paul Hoffman, Director
--Internet Mail Consortium

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:00:41 -0800
From: Will Price <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]
To: [email-masked], [email-masked]
CC: Paul Koning <[email-masked]>, [email-masked], [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Recent spam
Sender: [email-masked]

Absolutely.  The spam here is totally absurd.

Again however, I submit that trying to be "smart" about rejecting spam is
not the solution.  The people who send spam will always figure out a way
around it.  The immediate solution here is to change the name of the list,
and given the urgency of the situation at this point I think we should
change the name of list to "[email-masked]" and ask for forgiveness later.

Paul Koning wrote:
> 
> >>>>> "wolfgang" == wolfgang  <[email-masked]> writes:
> 
>  wolfgang> ...
>  wolfgang> The recent developments (currently already more than 10
>  wolfgang> spam postings per _day_, creating a noise vs. signal ratio
>  wolfgang> of about 97% vs. 3%, and the spam volume is still
>  wolfgang> increasing!) should prove very clearly that meanwhile spam
>  wolfgang> _is_ an issue on this mailing list.
> 
> I was going along with the "just ignore it" approach last time it came
> up.  But at this point I have to agree with Wolfgang that the
> situation is getting really bad.  Enough so to be significant even
> though I have a high speed Internet link; if I had a dialup link I
> would have been forced to unsubscribe some time ago.
> 
> Wolfgang's suggestion makes sense.  Another approach that would help
> some, though presumably it wouldn't be politically acceptable, is to
> reject any mesage that has a "*.cn" hostname in its forwarding path.
> 
>         paul

-- 

Will Price, Architect/Sr. Mgr., PGP Client Products
Total Network Security Division
Network Associates, Inc.

From: "gfy" <[email-masked]>
Subject: ��á�
To: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 00:02:46 +0800
Sender: [email-masked]

�����ǹ�����ֵ�������������ḻ��
��ý��������վ��

http://www.cq.cpcw.com/netschool/
���Ա�����ѧԺ��������������ҳ����
�Ͷ�ý�������������ҳ���ݷǳ��ḻ��

http://www.pchome.net/ch/Tur/
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��ý�������ȶ෽��ļ�����

http://www.muslab.com/
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���������ְ����߻���רҵ����������ʿ
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http://www.5dmedia.com/index1.html
5D��Ӣ����һ�����ܴ�����ý�弼������վ��
����ͼ��ҵ�����źͶ�ý������������

http://www.home.sj.net.cn/~zhouw/
��¼һ�壬��ϸ����VCD��¼�Ϳ�¼��ʹ�õ���վ��

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:38:10 -0500
From: Paul Koning <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked], [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Recent spam
Sender: [email-masked]

>>>>> "wolfgang" == wolfgang  <[email-masked]> writes:

 wolfgang> ...
 wolfgang> The recent developments (currently already more than 10
 wolfgang> spam postings per _day_, creating a noise vs. signal ratio
 wolfgang> of about 97% vs. 3%, and the spam volume is still
 wolfgang> increasing!) should prove very clearly that meanwhile spam
 wolfgang> _is_ an issue on this mailing list.

I was going along with the "just ignore it" approach last time it came 
up.  But at this point I have to agree with Wolfgang that the
situation is getting really bad.  Enough so to be significant even
though I have a high speed Internet link; if I had a dialup link I
would have been forced to unsubscribe some time ago.

Wolfgang's suggestion makes sense.  Another approach that would help
some, though presumably it wouldn't be politically acceptable, is to
reject any mesage that has a "*.cn" hostname in its forwarding path.

	paul

From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:13:26 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Recent spam
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Sender: [email-masked]

Paul,

when I first brought up the subject of chinese spam on the IETF
OpenPGP mailing list ("[email-masked]"), I was informed
that:

(a) a posting limitation for subscribers only was not acceptable
    to the IETF, and
(b) spam (10-30 mails per month maximum) was a complete
    "non-issue" (according to W. Geiger III).

The recent developments (currently already more than 10 spam
postings per _day_, creating a noise vs. signal ratio of about
97% vs. 3%, and the spam volume is still increasing!) should
prove very clearly that meanwhile spam _is_ an issue on this
mailing list. If this situation does not change, the list is in
danger of becoming unusable as real postings will get overlooked
in the flood of spam.

I do accept the openness of the list, so I am not suggesting any
limitation here. My log-files prove, however, that simply
enforcing RFC 822 + the MIME RFCs would remove nearly all of the
current spam:

_All_ of the chinese spam postings have one of the following
characteristics:

(a) They contain 8-bit characters in the e-mail headers (which
    violates RFC 822), or
(b) they have a MIME content labelling of "us-ascii" (= 7bit)
    while containing 8-bit characters in the mail body (violation
    of RFC 2045), or
(c) they have a MIME content labelling of "ISO-8859-1" while
    containing ASCII characters between 128 and 159 (which don't
    exist in ISO-8859-1, thus violating RFC 2045), or
(d) they have a content labelling of "GB_2312" (which signifies
    chinese encoding) and thus are certainly not applicable for
    any IETF purposes (although they do not really violate any
    RFCs to my knowledge).

Checking the headers for illegal 8-bit characters alone would
remove about 90% of the spam postings, and Werner Koch has posted
a solution how these mails could be easily filtered.

Could you please implement at least _some_ automatic checking
(e.g. along the lines of Werner's suggestion)? This would be a
one-time effort and the filtered postings could be deleted
automatically without inspection as they violate the mail
standards, anyway.

- Wolfgang Redtenbacher

From: "friend" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Subject: ���ϳ��������￪ʼ!
To: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 23:54:54 +0800
Sender: [email-masked]

���ϳ��������￪ʼ,�����ɲ�ȥ!

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---------------------------
�ⲻ���ʼ��б�,Ҳ�����ظ�����-

From: "money" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Subject: hi.���ڵ�һ���������ѵĹ�˾
To: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 18:27:57 +0800
Sender: [email-masked]

������Ϣ:
���ڵ�һ��������SPEDIA�ȵ�׬Ǯ��վĵ������ʽ�����ˡ��
��վλ������,ÿ��26�������Ǯ,������Կɿ�!��Ͽ�ע�ᣡ

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From: "money" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Subject: hi.���ڵ�һ���������ѵĹ�˾
To: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 18:27:57 +0800
Sender: [email-masked]

������Ϣ:
���ڵ�һ��������SPEDIA�ȵ�׬Ǯ��վĵ������ʽ�����ˡ��
��վλ������,ÿ��26�������Ǯ,������Կɿ�!��Ͽ�ע�ᣡ

http://www58.126.com/

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:25:11 +0100
From: Johannes Posel <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: Johannes Posel <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Recent Spam
Sender: [email-masked]

Hi Werner,

sorry to again (sic') taking on this damned thread.

> An open ML is much easier to use - however some filtering should be
> setup - it is not not that complicated and catches 90% of all unwanted
> mail.  Debian does it and it seems that everyone can live with it.

This should really be considered! I don't know if other people realize it but
the amount of spam this list gets overthrows all stats I made since years ;(

> And please lets stop this thread now.  If it is not possible to stop the
> unwanted emails I just hit the D key or add my own filtering rule.

For  1 week of postings, all were spam. Other periods are not really better.
What scares me is the amount (roughly over 90%!) of spam vs. "normal" mail on
this list...

>    Werner

From: [email-masked]
To: [email-masked]
Subject: ���ɲ����ġ���21����׬Ǯ����!Cool!
Date: 18 Jan 00 17:36:25 +0800
Sender: [email-masked]

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This message was sent with the shareware version of Gammadyne Mailer.
It is ILLEGAL to use the unregistered version for commercial purposes.
Report abuses to mailto:[email-masked] (http://gammadyne.com).
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This message was sent with the shareware version of Gammadyne Mailer.
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Report abuses to mailto:[email-masked] (http://gammadyne.com).

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:59:41 +0800
To: [email-masked]
Subject: =?gb2312?B?0MLE6rrDo6E=?=
Sender: [email-masked]

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>                                                        2000.1

From: "melody" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: ����������
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:20:11
Sender: [email-masked]

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From: [email-masked]
To: <[email-masked]>
Author: Liu Yong Jun
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 08:50:48 
Subject:  ����һ�����Ѽ��������Ի�� 12 ��Ԫ
Sender: [email-masked]

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From: "����" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: ����@sunmailh.online.fjzz.cn.net
Subject: �����λ��Ǹ�������
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Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 16:52:49 +0800
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------=_NextPart_000_007F_01BDF6C7.FABAC1B0--

From: "happy" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Happy New Year
To: CN
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:55:42 +0800
Sender: [email-masked]

Gb at the first,Big5 at the middle,English at the end.
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Velcome to visit ��Mingshan Software Studio�� "Health Home of
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=========================================================
Dear Friends:
    
  A Happy New Year to you.  May all your wishes and dreams come true!
!     
                                         
                       Mingshan Software Studio
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=========================================================
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=========================================================

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:51:14 +0000 (China)
Subject: Dancing! Make your life happy!
To: [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked]
Sender: [email-masked]

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<font size=6 color=Maroon face="Arial">
<a href="http://mao.hui.org">
(: !!Make Your Life Happy!! :)<br>
<img src="http://mao.hui.org/gerbil.gif"><br>
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</a></font>

--Boundary_(ID_gtYONcbz86GKLLvH4NcKng)--

From: "gfy" <[email-masked]>
Subject: ��á�
To: group
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 00:33:53 +0800
Sender: [email-masked]

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Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 12:47:27 +0800 (CST)
To: [email-masked]
From: cnshow����@21cn.com
Subject: CnShow���֡����š���Ϣ�챨13�տ� 
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From: "ken" <[email-masked]>
Subject: ����100M��ѿռ�������׬Ǯ!
To: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:56:06 +0800
Sender: [email-masked]

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From: "gfy" <[email-masked]>
Subject: ��á�
To: group
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 00:41:24 +0800
Sender: [email-masked]

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From: [email-masked]
Subject: ���������������ڲ�����������������
To: 60
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 22:41:12 +0800
Sender: [email-masked]

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From: "lw" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Subject: Who is interested
To: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 02:03:11 +0800
Sender: [email-masked]

Hello, I want sell these,Who is interested.I'm in China
America, English, Mexican , French, Dutch , Norwegian , Brazil and
other national head of states give the credentials of Chinese
president.
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Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 08:41:30 -0800 (PST)
From: [email-masked]
To: "" <>
Subject: donghua
Sender: [email-masked]

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Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 00:23:08 +0800
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Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 15:00:23 -0500
To: [email-masked]
From: Power List <[email-masked]>
Subject: hi 
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Hello,my dear friend:

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From: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Subject: �Ƶ�Ԥ������www.hotelonline.com.cn
To: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 11:47:47 +0800
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From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 00:58:47 +0000
Subject: PASS MCSE
To: [email-masked]
Author: Liu Yong Jun
Sender: [email-masked]

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PASS MCSE
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PASS MCSE
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From: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Subject: �Ƶ�Ԥ������www.hotelonline.com.cn
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Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 06:48:54 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 16:14:21 
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1��http://www.cashsurfers.com/?a=HTML&s=Join&referrer=huangks
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������ Mail to:[email-masked]

Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:15:09 -0800 (PST)
From: ken <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]

�ظ���: 
Subject:  ����100M��ѿռ�������׬Ǯ!
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Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 03:08:14 +0100 (CET)
From: [email-masked] (Bodo Moeller)
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: 3 remarks
Sender: [email-masked]

Werner Koch <[email-masked]>:

>>  * I don't think the note                                
>>      * (Added:) PGP 2.6.X and 5.0 do not trim trailing whitespace from a
>>        "canonical text" signature. They only remove it from cleartext
>>        signatures.                                    
>>    is particularly clear on how to interoperate.         

>  [IMHO, this is not the goal of the RFC]

If the RFC does not demand or recommend that implementations accept
such non-standard signatures created by PGP, then that paragraph
should not be in the main text (it can be put in an appendix).
(Also the wording is bad, trailing whitespace is ignored but not
removed when PGP computes cleartext signatures.)

Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 18:34:23 -0800 (PST)
From: ken <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]

�ظ���: 
Subject:  ����100M��ѿռ�������׬Ǯ!
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From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 09:55:51 +0800 (CST)
To: "ldc" <>
Subject: Money
Sender: [email-masked]

--divider
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--divider--

From: [email-masked]
To: <[email-masked]>
Author: Liu Yong Jun
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:27:06 
Subject: ����һ�����Ѽ��������Ի�� 50 ��Ԫ
Sender: [email-masked]

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From: "1687" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Subject: �����е���վ�����Ƽ���õ�׬Ǯ��վ
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From: "happy" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: happy
Subject: happy
To: "happy" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 01:16:36 +0800
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Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 18:03:41 +0100
From: Werner Koch <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: RFC2440 and issuer ID sub-packet
Mail-Followup-To: [email-masked]
Sender: [email-masked]

On Fri, 14 Jan 2000, Ian Bell wrote:

>         5.2.3.3. Signature creation time
> 
>                  (4 octet time field)
>                  The time the signature was made.
>                   MUST be present in the hashed area.
> 
> (note the MUST)

This MUST is related to the area (whether it goes into the hashed or 
unhashed are) and not to the subpacket itself.  I can think of
applications where the signature time is not really needed, say
because the time can be deduced from another subpacket.

>         5.2.3.4. Issuer
> 
>                  (8 octet key ID)
>                   The OpenPGP key ID of the key issuing the signature.
> 
> (note the lack of any advice on whether the subpacket is mandatory or
> optional)

All the subpackets are optional.  I agree that this field is very
importan but in environments wehre you use only a few keypairs it 
may be ommited.

>         5.2.4.1. Subpacket Hints
> 
>         An implementation SHOULD put the two mandatory subpackets,
>         creation time and issuer, as the first subpackets in the
>         subpacket list, simply to make it easier for the implementer to
>         find them.
> 
> The fact that the issuer is mandatory should be reflected by a "MUST" in
> 5.2.3.4 as/when RFC2440 is updated.

Well, because the issuer is not mandatory, we actually can leave the
text as it is.  I think the defintion of "mandatory" is not clear:
Is a SHOULD mandatory? 

> all (the example I have is of a X.509 certificate wrapped by a PGP key).
> This is sufficient to break the standard public-key server software -

At least Marc's server has many other problems with OpenPGP, so that this
one is only a minor thing. 

> The fact that PGP omits the subpacket may be because of the way the
> mandatory nature of this subpacket has not been sufficiently emphasised.

I have not found a reference to X.509 in rfc2440 - so this seems to be a
private extension of PGP 6 wich violates OpenPGP (as the PhotoID and some
other things do it too).

-- 
Werner Koch at guug.de           www.gnupg.org           keyid 621CC013
  
     Boycott Amazon!  -  http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/amazon.html

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To: [email-masked]
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Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 15:26:59 +0000
To: [email-masked]
From: Ian Bell <[email-masked]>
Subject: RFC2440 and issuer ID sub-packet
Sender: [email-masked]

>From RFC2440:

        5.2.3.3. Signature creation time

                 (4 octet time field)
                 The time the signature was made.
                  MUST be present in the hashed area.

(note the MUST)

        5.2.3.4. Issuer

                 (8 octet key ID)
                  The OpenPGP key ID of the key issuing the signature.

(note the lack of any advice on whether the subpacket is mandatory or
optional)

        5.2.4.1. Subpacket Hints

        An implementation SHOULD put the two mandatory subpackets,
        creation time and issuer, as the first subpackets in the
        subpacket list, simply to make it easier for the implementer to
        find them.

The fact that the issuer is mandatory should be reflected by a "MUST" in
5.2.3.4 as/when RFC2440 is updated.

As it happens, PGP6.5 is capable of creating keys without an issuer at
all (the example I have is of a X.509 certificate wrapped by a PGP key).
This is sufficient to break the standard public-key server software -
openPGP vendors may like to check their code too!

The fact that PGP omits the subpacket may be because of the way the
mandatory nature of this subpacket has not been sufficiently emphasised.

-- 
Ian Bell                                           T U R N P I K E  Ltd

From: [email-masked]
Subject: ÿ��һ���ֻ������� #4B6B
To: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 21:53:49 +0800
Sender: [email-masked]

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Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:17:15 +0800
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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 15:14:56 +0100
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ulf_M=F6ller?= <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: 3 remarks
Sender: [email-masked]

On Thu, Jan 13, 2000 at 10:38:12AM +0100, Werner Koch wrote:

>    is particularly clear on how to interoperate.                                   
> 
>  [IMHO, this is not the goal of the RFC] 

I doubt that it was a wise decision to declare the PGP canonical
non-cleartext signature format incorrect (by the way, how does PGP 6
handle them?), but even ignoring that there are problems.

As the draft is written, all OpenPGP implementations must be prepared
to recieve "binary" signatures on a "text" literal data packet (or
even a "cleartext" signature, which of course works only if there was
no trailing whitespace in the document to be signed); or a "canonical
text" signature on a "binary" literal data packet; and so on. I don't
think you'd find many implementations that handle all that correctly.

Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 04:22:32 -0800 (PST)
From: <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]

�ظ���: 
Subject:  Ѱ��Ͷ�ʰ쳧
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Message-Id: <20000113194719.SM00168@fzhx05>
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 20:28:53 EST

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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 10:38:12 +0100
From: Werner Koch <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: 3 remarks
Mail-Followup-To: [email-masked]
Sender: [email-masked]

Hello,

this WG has been somewhat quite for a long time, even after the last
draft has been published.  I have seen only a very few comments on
this draft and IIRC the main concern was related to a standard naming
scheme for notation data.

1) Open points related to the latest draft:

 Thu, 23 Dec 1999 20:40:01 +0100, Ulf M�ller <[email-masked]>:

 * PKCS-1 block type 02 [RFC2437] (Was: [RFC2313]) to form the "m"              
   value used in the formulas above.                                            
   You need to observe the changes in terminology if you refer to the new          
   PKCS #1.                                                                        
                                                                                
 * The signature packet format is still specified as including "zero or            
   more subpackets", but the subpacket hints section mentions in passing           
   that two packets are mandatory.                                                 
                                                                                
 * The notes about backward compatibility don't mention that PGP 2                 
   requires certain formats for some packet types.                                 
 
 [ I'd suggest to change the wording in section 14 (Implementation Nits)
   by inserting a "some": "... Thus, this list of some potential problems
   and gotchas ..." ]

 * I don't think the note                                                          
     * (Added:) PGP 2.6.X and 5.0 do not trim trailing whitespace from a        
       "canonical text" signature. They only remove it from cleartext           
       signatures.                                                              
   is particularly clear on how to interoperate.                                   

 [IMHO, this is not the goal of the RFC] 
                                                                                
 * The security notes should mention that only v3 RSA signatures are bound to      
   the hash algorithm, so that v4/DSA signatures can be forged if any one of       
   the hash algorithms is broken, even if the signer doesn't use that
   algorithm.   

 Sat, 25 Dec 1999 22:20:32 +0100, Thomas Roessler <[email-masked]>:

 * The new draft still does not have any details on notation data                  
   naming, making these data essentially useless.                                  
                                                                                
   I propose to add the following text in the end of section 5.2.3.16              
   of the draft: [...]                                                                   
                 
 [Lacking a better suggestion we should either do this or require that
  all names to be prefixed with either a "x-" or "X-" until a
  supplemenatary document describes the usage of these names]                         

2) A stupid question:

 Recently I browsed rfc2026 (The Internet Standards Process) to see
 what is needed for a move to draft standard status.

| 4.1.2  Draft Standard
|
|  A specification from which at least two independent and interoperable
|  implementations from different code bases have been developed, and
[...]
|  The requirement for at least two independent and interoperable
|  implementations applies to all of the options and features of the
|  specification.  In cases in which one or more options or features
|  have not been demonstrated in at least two interoperable
|  implementations, the specification may advance to the Draft Standard
|  level only if those options or features are removed.

It is not clear to me what "options and features" do mean in this
context.  Does this include the OPTIONAL parts of rfc2440 and what
about some of the SHOULDs like the requirements of IDEA (there are
good reasons not to implement it for patent reasons)?  Do we really
need to have 2 implementations which implement all OPTIONAL parts?
I don't believe this but I am asking just for clarity.

I remember that we once talked about a check list to compare the
interoperability and required features (John's answer from Nov 11th).
Has there been any progress or should I start to compile a new list
based on Tony's work (and where can I get his list)? 

3) Action required by implementors

Tom, does your implemenation already have the ability to create
the "reason for revocation"?
Should we implement the new requirements of the draft now?

  Werner

-- 
Werner Koch at guug.de           www.gnupg.org           keyid 621CC013
  
     Boycott Amazon!  -  http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/amazon.html

From: [email-masked]
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From: "dARK kILLER" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Subject: С���Ӳ�Ҫ��
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Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 21:05:20 -0800 (PST)
From: ken <[email-masked]>
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Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 19:38:23 +0100
From: Werner Koch <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Line Breaks in OpenPGP ASCII armor
Mail-Followup-To: [email-masked]
Sender: [email-masked]

On Tue, 11 Jan 2000, [email-masked] wrote:

> 1. RFC 2440 and its newest draft revision specify in section 6 that
>    Radix-64 encoding is identical to MIME Base64 encoding per RFC
>    2045. RFC 2045 (and RFC 822) explicitely specify that the line
>    break character(s) to be used is/are CRLF.

It is the task of a a MUA to convert line endings to network standard
format.  OpenPGP is not a protocol designed with only mail in mind.

>    (a) PGP 5.0i for DOS and PGP 6.5.1i for Windows use the line break
>        CRLF.

Because that is the (ugly) DOS convention.

>    (b) PGP 5.0i for Linux and GnuPG 1.0.1 for Linux use LF alone as
>        line break.

GNU/Linux is based on Unix and therefore we have these lineendings
here.

>    (c) GnuPG 1.0.1 for Windows uses a mixture: All line breaks except
>        the one preceding the "END PGP MESSAGE" line are CRLF (= DOS
>        style), and the line break preceding "END PGP MESSAGE" is LF
>        alone (= Unix style).

This should go as a bug report to the GnuPG developers :-)
BTW, didn't you noticed these big fat letters saying that this is
an alpha version and that it may work or not.  It is not good to take 
such software for your tests.

I'll fix it,

  Werner

-- 
Werner Koch at guug.de           www.gnupg.org           keyid 621CC013
  
     Boycott Amazon!  -  http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/amazon.html

Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 10:14:53 -0800 (PST)
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From: anomyous
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From: "RCD" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Subject: ��ӭ���� - �й�Ե���ʽ�����վ ��
To: [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 21:37:37 +0800
Sender: [email-masked]

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From: [email-masked]
To: <[email-masked]>
Author: Liu Yong Jun
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 12:13:17 
Subject: ׬�����,�����׼�
Sender: [email-masked]

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 04:29:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Line Breaks in OpenPGP ASCII armor
To: [email-masked]
Sender: [email-masked]

When doing interoperability tests for the revision of my "OpenPGP
Tutorial" (which should be finished within the next 2 days and will be
uploaded to "http://www.redtenbacher.de/signatur/index.htm" then), I
noticed some variations in handling line breaks in ASCII armored
files:

1. RFC 2440 and its newest draft revision specify in section 6 that
   Radix-64 encoding is identical to MIME Base64 encoding per RFC
   2045. RFC 2045 (and RFC 822) explicitely specify that the line
   break character(s) to be used is/are CRLF.

2. An empirical review of PGP implementations regarding ASCII armor
   output shows a different picture, however:

   (a) PGP 5.0i for DOS and PGP 6.5.1i for Windows use the line break
       CRLF.

   (b) PGP 5.0i for Linux and GnuPG 1.0.1 for Linux use LF alone as
       line break.

   (c) GnuPG 1.0.1 for Windows uses a mixture: All line breaks except
       the one preceding the "END PGP MESSAGE" line are CRLF (= DOS
       style), and the line break preceding "END PGP MESSAGE" is LF
       alone (= Unix style).

I am aware that under Unix, the normal line break in ASCII files is LF
alone and that it is usually considered to be the job of the email
software to convert this into canonical CRLF format. (My mailer
software KT-MAIL does this.) I also found that the result of 2b and 2c
above didn't cause any decoding problems even when directly
transferring the ASCII armored files between Linux and a DOS/Windows
machine, as apparently all the above programs accept both versions
(CRLF or LF) without any problems.

I think, however, that something should be said about this in the
revision of RFC 2440, as for the programs listed in 2b and 2c above,
there is obviously _no_ 100% equivalence between ASCII armor and MIME
encoding regarding the line breaks. And I wonder whether the output of
GnuPG 1.0.1 for Windows is really intended to be this mixture between
CRLF line breaks and one LF line break, which causes a GnuPG result
file to appear wrongly when loaded e.g. into the Win95 editor.

- Wolfgang Redtenbacher

Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:09:31 +0800 (CST)
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Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 12:31:06 
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Reference number of your sponsor:    =CC=EE477346=B2=C5=D0=D0
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=CF=C2=C3=E6=CA=C7=D2=BB=D0=A9=D6=D0=D3=A2=CE=C4=B5=D8=D6=B7=B6=D4=D5=D5=B1=
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     =B1=A6=C9=BD=C7=F8=CA=BE=B7=B6=D0=C2=B4=E537=BA=C5403=CA=D2
     Room 403,No.37,Si=46an Residential Quarter,BaoShan District

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     Room 201,No.34,Lane 125,XiKang Road(South),HongKou District

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     Zhou Wangcai
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     Zhou Wangcai
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     Mr. Zhou Wangcai
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From: [email-masked]
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From: "tanaka" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Subject: 2000
To: oner
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 02:00:17 +0900
Sender: [email-masked]

This is a MIME Message

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From: =?gb2312?B?t/7O8Q==?= <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Cc: <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]>
Subject: =?gb2312?B?0trMxs341b7T0NK7uPbW2LTzvqrPstKquObL38T6o6E=?=
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 11:18:45 +0800
Sender: [email-masked]

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 08:57:02 +0800
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From: [email-masked]
To: 3
Subject: 9
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 22:15:31 +0800
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From: kasjdfkjwedf<[email-masked]>
To: 
Subject: Free Sex Link already change URL
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 19:05:23 +0800
Sender: [email-masked]

Http://disok.iscool.net already change to                           
Http://sexy2000.iscool.net

Welcome come here!

From: [email-masked]
Bcc:
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 99 15:23:42 �й���׼ʱ��
Subject: ÿСʱ����120��Ԫ����������
Sender: [email-masked]

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--WC_MAIL_PaRt_BoUnDaRy_05151998
Content-Type: text/html
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit

������ʵ��ÿСʱ����120��Ԫ����������
--WC_MAIL_PaRt_BoUnDaRy_05151998
Content-Type: application/octet-stream; file=bepaidht.htm
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=bepaidht.htm

--WC_MAIL_PaRt_BoUnDaRy_05151998
Content-Type: application/octet-stream; file=valuepay.htm
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=valuepay.htm

--WC_MAIL_PaRt_BoUnDaRy_05151998--

From: [email-masked]
Bcc:
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 99 14:47:16 �й���׼ʱ��
Subject: ÿСʱ����120��Ԫ����������
Sender: [email-masked]

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--WC_MAIL_PaRt_BoUnDaRy_05151998
Content-Type: text/html
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit

������ʵ��ÿСʱ����120��Ԫ����������
--WC_MAIL_PaRt_BoUnDaRy_05151998
Content-Type: application/octet-stream; file=bepaidht.htm
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=bepaidht.htm

--WC_MAIL_PaRt_BoUnDaRy_05151998
Content-Type: application/octet-stream; file=valuepay.htm
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=valuepay.htm

--WC_MAIL_PaRt_BoUnDaRy_05151998--

Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 20:47:43 -0800 (PST)
From: ken <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]

�ظ���: 
Subject:  ��ѵĿ��ٵ�300M�ռ�!!!
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

�Բ���,����8m������������ԭ�������Ӳ�������!
�������������,����������ѵĿ��ٵ�300M�ռ��!
http://202.98.107.196/~allin/300.htm

From: [email-masked]
To: 
Subject: ���ϰ��ϻ�ȫ�¸İ�
Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 10:39:25
Sender: [email-masked]

���ϰ��ϻ�ȫ�¸İ棬���ݷḻ��ͼƬ������
http://szp.yeah.net
   
С�������� http://zjfeng.yeah.net �����ṩ�������鼮����,�Լ����ܵ����༮�ĺ�ȥ��,
�������д�����delphi,VB,VC,SQLSERVER,ORACLE���缼��������������ʹ��ָ��,��������,
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From: "Delfino Solutions" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Welcome visit this website
To: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 06:48:46 +0800
Sender: [email-masked]

This is a MIME Message

------=_NextPart_000_007F_01BDF6C7.FABAC1B0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0080_01BDF6C7.FABAC1B0"

------=_NextPart_001_0080_01BDF6C7.FABAC1B0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

***** This is an HTML Message ! *****

------=_NextPart_001_0080_01BDF6C7.FABAC1B0
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

http://www.tianfu.net/~zhaizl

------=_NextPart_001_0080_01BDF6C7.FABAC1B0--

------=_NextPart_000_007F_01BDF6C7.FABAC1B0--

From: <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Author: Liu Yong Jun
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 14:07:13 
Subject: ������վ,��ӭ����.
Sender: [email-masked]

������վ,��ӭ����.
http://atp.363.net
���д���,���뺣��!

From: "William H. Geiger III" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 12:42:57 -0600
To: Werner Koch <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [Off topic] No more strange chinese mail
Sender: [email-masked]

In <[email-masked]>, on 01/07/00 
   at 12:42 PM, Werner Koch <[email-masked]> said:

>Sorry for this off-topic post,

>maybe someone is interested in this little tool. 
>Use it with a procmail recipe like this:

>:0
>* !? 8bit-in-header -qs Subject From To 
>spam/

>and it puts all these non rfc822 compliant chinese mails into the spam
>folder.  Yes, I know: everyone prefers perl scripts but this one here is
>faster ;-)

Many thanks!! I am running this currently from a e-mail filter on OS/2 and
it works like a charm!!

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III                    http://www.openpgp.net  
Geiger Consulting    

Data Security & Cryptology Consulting
Programming, Networking, Analysis
 
PGP for OS/2:                   http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
---------------------------------------------------------------

To: [email-masked]
Path: lutz
From: [email-masked] (Lutz Donnerhacke)
Newsgroups: iks.lists.ietf-open-pgp
Subject: Re: Recent Spam
Date: 7 Jan 2000 16:40:14 GMT
Organization: IKS GmbH Jena
Lines: 5
NNTP-Posting-Host: belenus.iks-jena.de
Sender: [email-masked]

* [email-masked] wrote:
>(a) limit postings to this list to subscribers and

No. I would not be able to send messages.

From: kasjdfkjwedf<[email-masked]>
To: 
Subject: Free Sex Link already change URL
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 17:32:40 +0800
Sender: [email-masked]

Http://disok.iscool.net already change to         
Http://sexy2000.iscool.net

Welcome come here!

From: "Wkwudr" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: =?gb2312?B?16q3ojog16rU2KO6yc/N+LPlwMujrNes1+PDwNSqo6HWu9DozuW31g==?= =?gb2312?B?1tOjocO/1MK++b/J16zDwNSqo6GjoaOh?=
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 18:59:53 +0800
Sender: [email-masked]

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0094_01BF5947.B33AF9C0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="gb2312"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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ohau(=CF=FE=BB=AA)
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=20
         Confirm Password =
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><A=20
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p;vid=3D453343</A>=A3=A8=B0=D1=B4=CB=B5=D8=D6=B7=B8=B4=D6=C6=BF=BD=C8=EBI=
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=D6=B7=A3=AC=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
=CC=EE=D0=B4=B5=C4=C4=DA=C8=DD=BA=DC=BC=F2=B5=A5=A3=AC=B5=DA=D2=BB=D2=B3=BB=
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Do you currently have a Web page =
=A3=A8=CA=C7=B7=F1=D3=D0=B8=F6=C8=CB<BR>=D6=F7=D2=B3=A3=BF=A3=A9</FONT></=
DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;=20
Do you want to use our services to =
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money =
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 =
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
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Member Name =
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=D3=CA=BC=FE=B5=D8=D6=B7(=D2=BB=B6=A8=D2=AA=D5=FD=C8=B7,=B7=F1=D4=F2=CA=D5=
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
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</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 =
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=D1=A1<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; non-us/other) </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
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</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 =
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
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 </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
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BR>(SPEDIA=B5=C4=B7=A8=C2=C9=CC=F5=BF=EE=C9=CF=D0=B4=B5=C3=B7=C7=B3=A3=C3=
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
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size=3D2><BR></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0094_01BF5947.B33AF9C0--

From: [email-masked]
To: 
Subject: Happy New Year
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 19:53:52
Sender: [email-masked]

Gb at the first,Big5 at the middle,English
 at the end.

******************GB**********************

 ��ӭ���١���ɽ���������ҡ�����ҽ��Ľ���
 ��԰��
==========================================
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     ֵ��ǧ������֮�ʣ���ף��λ������֣�

             �������⣡ ����˳��!!     
                                         
                     ��ɽ����������
                        2000.01.07 
==========================================
����ҽ��Ľ�����԰��
http://mssoftware.easthome.net
http://acupuncture-tcm.freeservers.com/
http://www2.50megs.com/mssoftware     
==========================================
[���ʼ�Ҳ������λ������鷳������ԭ�£�]

****************Big5**********************

�w����{�m���s�n��u�@�ǡn������w�b���d
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                          2000.01.07  
==========================================
������w�b���d�a�顨
http://mssoftware.easthome.net
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http://www2.50megs.com/mssoftware     
==========================================
[���l��]�\���U��y���F�·СA�q�Э�̡I]

*****************English******************

Velcome to visit��Mingshan Software Studio
 ��"Health Home of Acupuncture and TCM"
==========================================
Dear Friends:
    
  A Happy New Year to you.  May all your
 wishes and dreams come true!!     
                                         
           Mingshan Software Studio
                  2000.01.07 
==========================================
 "Health Home of Acupuncture and TCM"
http://mssoftware.easthome.net
http://acupuncture-tcm.freeservers.com/
http://www2.50megs.com/mssoftware     
==========================================
   
С�������� http://zjfeng.yeah.net �����ṩ�������鼮����,�Լ����ܵ����༮�ĺ�ȥ��,
�������д�����delphi,VB,VC,SQLSERVER,ORACLE���缼��������������ʹ��ָ��,��������,
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From: <Anonym>
To: <[email-masked]>
Author: Liu Yong Jun
Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 16:38:00 
Subject: ��Һ�
Sender: [email-masked]

��Spediaȥע��,Ȼ��չ����.�����õĻ�ÿ�¿�׬��һ����Ԫ. 

     Spedia���������������ǲ������е�һ�����˵Ĵ��»��������ҵ��Ĺ�˾���������ڻ����� ���͹��
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     ����ɹ�����������ID����¼��Ȼ������spedia for windows
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     ̬��
     ��������ʻ����µģ���ô��ǰ��׬��Ԫ��һ���ͻ���ʾunavalible.

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Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 21:17:49 +0100
From: Werner Koch <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [Off topic] No more strange chinese mail
Mail-Followup-To: [email-masked]
Sender: [email-masked]

--8w3uRX/HFJGApMzv
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Sorry for this off-topic post,

maybe someone is interested in this little tool. 
Use it with a procmail recipe like this:

:0
* !? 8bit-in-header -qs Subject From To 
spam/

and it puts all these non rfc822 compliant chinese mails into the spam
folder.  Yes, I know: everyone prefers perl scripts but this one here is
faster ;-)

-- 
Werner Koch at guug.de           www.gnupg.org           keyid 621CC013
  
     Boycott Amazon!  -  http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/amazon.html

--8w3uRX/HFJGApMzv
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="8bit-in-header.c"

/* 8bit-in-header.c
 * A tool to check for non ASCII characters in RFC822 messages header.
 *    Copyright (C) 2000  Werner Koch
 *
 * This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
 * it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
 * the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or
 * (at your option) any later version.
 *
 * This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
 * but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
 * MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
 * GNU General Public License for more details.
 *
 * You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
 * along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
 * Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA
 *
 *
 * 2000-01-06 wk
 * Written as an attempt to get rid of strange chinese mails
 *
 */

#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <string.h>
#include <ctype.h>

#define PGMNAME "8bit-in-header"

/* bail out after more than BAD_LIMIT 8/bit chars in one logical line
 * We allow for a few bad characters due to transmission errors or
 * something like this when option -s is used.
 */
#define BAD_LIMIT 3

#define MAX_NAMES 200

static int silent;
static int sloppy;

static void
usage(void)
{
    fputs("usage: " PGMNAME " [-q] [-s] [--] [headernames]\n"
	  "\n"
	  "  -q   be silent\n"
	  "  -s   sloppy match: accept up to 2 non ascii characters\n"
		      , stderr );
    exit(2);
}

static int
name_cmp( const char *a, const char *b )
{
    for( ; *a && *b; a++, b++ ) {
	if( *a != *b
	    && toupper(*(unsigned char *)a) != toupper(*(unsigned char *)b) )
	    return 1;
    }
    return *a != *b;
}

static int
headerp( char *p, char **names )
{
    int i, c;
    char *p2;

    p2 = strchr(p, ':');
    if( !p2 || p == p2 ) {
	if( !silent )
	    fputs( "header line without colon or name\n", stdout );
	exit(1);
    }
    if( p2[-1] == ' ' || p2[-1] == '\t' ) {
	if( !silent )
	    fputs( "invalid header field\n", stdout );
	exit(1);
    }

    if( !names[0] )
	return 1;  /* check all fields */
    c = *p2;
    *p2 = 0;
    for(i=0 ; names[i]; i++ ) {
	if( !name_cmp( names[i], p ) )
	    break;
    }
    *p2 = c;
    return !!names[i];
}

static int
count_bad( const char *s )
{
    int bad=0;

    for(; *s; s++ ) {
	if( *s & 0x80 )
	    bad++;
    }
    return bad;
}

int
main( int argc, char **argv )
{
    int skip = 0;
    char *names[MAX_NAMES+1];
    int thisone, bad, i;
    char line[2000];

    if( argc < 1)
	usage();  /* Hey, read how to uses exec*(2) */
    argv++; argc--;

    for( i=0; argc; argc--, argv++ ) {
	const char *s = *argv;
	if( !skip && *s == '-' ) {
	    s++;
	    if( *s == '-' && !s[1] ) {
		skip = 1;
		continue;
	    }
	    if( *s == '-' || !*s ) {
		usage();
	    }
	    while( *s ) {
		if( *s=='q' ) {
		    silent=1;
		    s++;
		}
		else if( *s=='s' ) {
		    sloppy=1;
		    s++;
		}
		else if( *s )
		    usage();
	    }
	    continue;
	}
	if( i >= MAX_NAMES ) {
	    fputs(PGMNAME ": too many names given\n", stderr );
	    exit(2);
	}
	names[i++] = *argv;
    }
    names[i] = NULL;

    /* now get the lines */
    bad = thisone = 0;
    while( fgets( line, sizeof line, stdin ) ) {
	int n = strlen(line);
	if( !n || line[n-1] != '\n' ) {
	    /* n == 0 should never happen */
	    if( !silent )
		fputs( "line too long - see RFC822\n", stdout );
	    exit(1);  /* maybe someone wants to circument this */
	}
	line[--n] = 0;
	if( n && line[n-1] == '\r' )
	    line[--n] = 0;
	if( !n ) {
	    exit(0); /* Here is the body - stop */
	}
	if( *line == ' ' || *line == '\t' ) {
	    /* we don't care when the first line is an invalid cont.-line */
	    if( thisone )
		bad += count_bad( line );
	}
	else if( headerp( line, names ) ) {
	    thisone = 1;
	    bad = count_bad( line );
	}
	else {
	    thisone = 0;
	    bad = 0;
	}
	if( (bad && !sloppy) || bad >= BAD_LIMIT ) {
	    if( !silent ) {
		if( sloppy )
		    fputs( "too many 8-bit characters in a header\n", stdout );
		else
		    fputs( "8-bit character in a header\n", stdout );
	    }
	    exit(1);
	}
    }
    if( ferror(stdin) ) {
	fputs( PGMNAME ": read error\n", stderr );
	exit(1);
    }
    return 0;
}

--8w3uRX/HFJGApMzv--

From: [email-masked]
To: 
Subject: ��Ѷ�����������������
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 03:44:07
Sender: [email-masked]

1.��ѵļ�ֵ$70��Ԫ�������Ĺ��ʶ�������(��
�磺www.yahoo.com)����������������������
���ṩ�������������������ҹ�˾�ṩ�� 

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asp�����ݿ⼰frontpage extention ������
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�������д�����delphi,VB,VC,SQLSERVER,ORACLE���缼��������������ʹ��ָ��,��������,
��ӭ�㵽С����������

From: kjiip<???@hotpop.com>
To: 
Subject: Welcome to Free Sex Links
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 04:15:38 +0800
Sender: [email-masked]

Dear friend:                        
    Please to Free Sex Links if you are over 21.There almost 
updata everyday. A lot of adult pictures wait for you to download.
    I will settle any pazzle under 24 hours when that server arise 
mistake.
    URL: http://disok.iscool.net
****************************************************************************
�װ������ѣ�
        ������Ѿ�21�꣬�뵽��ѳ���ͼƬ�������Ｘ��ÿ���
�¡��ܶ����ͼƬ�ȴ���ȥ���ء������������������ʱ��
�ҽ���24Сʱ�ڽ����
        ��ַ��http://disok.iscool.net
****************************************************************************
I'm thankful to sexbaby for translate the letter in Chinese.

From: [email-masked]
To: <[email-masked]>
Author: Liu Yong Jun
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 18:11:03 
Subject: �������ˣ�׬����Ԫ��(���й����� )
Sender: [email-masked]

��������һ׮��Ǯ���£�Ȼ������ʱ�������治�У���˵����������׬��Ԫ�������Ķ����Ķ������ж��� 
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��д�����ݺܼ򵥣���һҳ���������㣺 
Do you currently have a Web page ���Ƿ��и�����ҳ���� 
Do you want to use our services to make money ����������׬Ǯ�𣿣� 

�и�����ҳ�Ļ�,������ѡyes,�����һ��ѡNO,�ڶ���ѡyes! 

Ȼ��ѡ�����next >>��ť!�������һҳ! 

Login/Domain Name�� ��Ҫ�õĵ�½���֣�ע���������������� ���磺yanyan 
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(���й����������г���·255��401��) 
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Address:State Non-US/Other(���ﶼ����������,����ѡnon-us/other) 
Address:Zip �������� ���磺214001
Address:Country ���� China 

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Phone : Fax �绰/����(���дһ��) 

����������д 
What is your age���� 
What is your gender�Ա� 
What is your education�����̶� 
What is your annual household income��ͥ������ 

Reference number of your sponsor: ��474020
Web Site Description ��ҳ���� 
����������ú󣬵�Submit registration ��ʼ��ʽע�ᣬ�����������ϵͳ�᷵�ش�����Ϣ��Ҫ��������д�� 
����д���������򷵻�ע��ɹ�����Ϣ�� 

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����ɹ���������������������¼��Ȼ����make money�µ�download����, 
ҳ���·���һ""Download Spedia Bar for Windows (size 312K): 
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To: <[email-masked]>
Author: Liu Yong Jun
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 10:34:45 
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Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 19:56:52 +0100
From: Werner Koch <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Recent Spam
Mail-Followup-To: [email-masked]
Sender: [email-masked]

On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, [email-masked] wrote:

> For example, I am posting currently from "[email-masked]".
> As I have subscribed to most of the 10 mailing lists I receive daily
> from another account ("[email-masked]"), I simply modify my
> "From:" address to "[email-masked]" when posting.

If you are active on a lot of mailing lists (and some of them may be
really quite).  You probably won't remember the address you used to
subscribe for all MLs.  Yes, with Mutt it is possible to change it
automagically but you have to configure it.

An open ML is much easier to use - however some filtering should be
setup - it is not not that complicated and catches 90% of all unwanted
mail.  Debian does it and it seems that everyone can live with it.

> An "open list" for me is an "unmoderated list" where everybody may

An "open list" and an "unmoderated list" are two different things.

> dummy user "[email-masked]" (or something like that) as a
> member of this list. The spammers are not going to use this, and

They do - it just takes some time.

And please lets stop this thread now.  If it is not possible to stop the
unwanted emails I just hit the D key or add my own filtering rule.

   Werner

-- 
Werner Koch at guug.de           www.gnupg.org           keyid 621CC013
  
     Boycott Amazon!  -  http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/amazon.html

Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 10:51:22 -0800
From: Michael Elkins <[email-masked]>
To: Paul Koning <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Recent Spam
Mail-Followup-To: Paul Koning <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]
Sender: [email-masked]

On Wed, Jan 05, 2000 at 10:52:09AM -0500, Paul Koning wrote:
[8-bit in message header fields is not allowed by RFC822]
> 
> It isn't?  Weird.  That seems like a spec bug that's bound to get
> fixed at some point, because of course it's an english-only
> restriction that we aren't supposed to have anymore.  And perhaps my
> memory is flaky, but I would have sworn that I've seen legit mail from 
> Europe with Latin-1 characters in the headers.

I doubt this will change since you can't tell what character set the 8-bit
characters belong to.  The only way to pass that information is to use the
proper MIME encoding to translate everything to 7-bit.  This is not a question
of being US-centric.

me

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 15:06:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Recent Spam
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked], [email-masked]
Sender: [email-masked]

> Paul Hoffman / IMC <[email-masked]> wrote on Tue, 04 Jan 2000
> 10:04:43 -0800:

>  >(a) The IESG has already said that they do not want any posting
>  >restrictions for WG mailing lists, specifically with this case. As someone
>  >else has already pointed out, they post from a different address, and
>  >they'd need to somehow "register" for each address they want to post from.

> I am rather surprised to read such statements from IETF members, as
> nearly all e-mail clients permit one to change the "From: ..." address
> quite easily.

> For example, I am posting currently from "[email-masked]".
> As I have subscribed to most of the 10 mailing lists I receive daily
> from another account ("[email-masked]"), I simply modify my
> "From:" address to "[email-masked]" when posting.

Fine. Now try dealing with 100 lists, where you've subscribed to each using a
different subaddress (for mail sorting purposes), and where you routinely send
messages to any/all of them. This is the situation I, and I suspect quite a few
others, are in. I happen to have a client that I can configure to use a
different origin address for each list I send to, but most clients don't offer
this ability. (The only reason the client I use does have it is that I wrote
it.)

> Is it really too burdensome to require IETF members to learn to
> configure their e-mail clients? I always thought that the IETF members
> are the top experts of the internet!

Simple answer: Yes it is.

But even if this weren't the case, the above misses a more fundamental point:
IETF lists need to allow people who are not on the list to post. This is true
both to allow postings from the IETF Secretariat and suchlike as well as to
allow comments from people who aren't actually on the mailing list.

The bottom line is that you should not have to be one the list to post to it.
It is fine for such postings to be manually checked to insure they aren't SPAM
(but nothing more), but as Jim says, doing so is a fairly major pain for very
active lists, and while automated tools and other tricks do help, it remains a
job that requires manual intervention.

> Regarding the "open-ness" of the mailing list, I would like to clarify
> my viewpoint:

> An "open list" for me is an "unmoderated list" where everybody may
> join, and postings are possible without previous permission from a
> moderator. A list where people can post without subscription (i.e.
> without reading any answers to their postings and without first
> checking if the subject has already been covered on the previous day)
> might be appropriate in certain special situations, but definitely not
> for standards work.

On the contrary, there is a fairly clear consensus that this is a requirement
for IETF standards work.

> I have been an active member of 3 DIN (DIN = German standards institute)
> standards working groups for 10 years now and I am head of the German
> delegation in 2 ISO standards groups ("Software Ergonomics" and
> "Programming Language Modula-2"), so if you consider me "spoiled by
> ISO", please correct me. But my experience in standards work is that
> "one way communication" (= throwing in one's own experiences without
> listening to what others say before or after one's own utterances)
> never really helped to progress or improve any standards.

My experience in the IETF is exactly the opposite. I also note that such
communications are not one-way at all: What happens is that someone posts a
comment to a list they are not on, and when list members reply to that comment
the original author gets a copy of their messages. In most cases this sort of
interaction works quite well.

There's also the case where a conversation on one list ends up getting cc'ed to
another list that needs to know what's going on. If I'm participating in such a
conversation I should not have to join the other list just to prevent my mail
sent to it from bouncing. And this sort of piggybacking is a far from uncommon
occurance.

> Is the IETF experience in this regard really so different?

Apparently so. It isn't like closed lists haven't been tried in the IETF. They
have, and they have caused a fair number of problems, so we don't allow them
any longer.

> I always
> considered the IETF to be a "free ISO counterpart" where the technical
> experts can do their jobs without having to bother with all the
> politics of ISO (formal national nominations for every meeting,
> national votes only, high membership charges etc.). I appreciate this
> free IETF attitude very much, but I cannot really see why this
> "freedom" should be extended to abusers of the internet (= spammers).

It is quite a bit more (or I perhaps less, depending on your point of view),
than that, but this is not the time or place to have this discussion.

				Ned

Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 19:40:34 +0100
From: Werner Koch <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Recent Spam
Mail-Followup-To: [email-masked]
Sender: [email-masked]

On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, Paul Koning wrote:

> restriction that we aren't supposed to have anymore.  And perhaps my
> memory is flaky, but I would have sworn that I've seen legit mail from 
> Europe with Latin-1 characters in the headers.

Something like this:

  From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Olle_J=E4rnefors?= <[email-masked]>

A modern MUA will display it more comfortable.  RFC2047 defines this
and still keeps RFC822 valid.  

-- 
Werner Koch at guug.de           www.gnupg.org           keyid 621CC013
  
     Boycott Amazon!  -  http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/amazon.html

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 12:49:38 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Recent Spam
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Sender: [email-masked]

Paul Hoffman / IMC <[email-masked]> wrote on Tue, 04 Jan 2000
10:04:43 -0800:

 >(a) The IESG has already said that they do not want any posting
 >restrictions for WG mailing lists, specifically with this case. As someone
 >else has already pointed out, they post from a different address, and
 >they'd need to somehow "register" for each address they want to post from.

I am rather surprised to read such statements from IETF members, as
nearly all e-mail clients permit one to change the "From: ..." address
quite easily.

For example, I am posting currently from "[email-masked]".
As I have subscribed to most of the 10 mailing lists I receive daily
from another account ("[email-masked]"), I simply modify my
"From:" address to "[email-masked]" when posting.

Is it really too burdensome to require IETF members to learn to
configure their e-mail clients? I always thought that the IETF members
are the top experts of the internet!

 >(b) ns.secondary.com is the mailer for this list; restricting
 >it would be kinda bad. ...

Ops, I was not aware of that. Sorry! Of course we cannot ban this
domain, then.

Regarding the "open-ness" of the mailing list, I would like to clarify
my viewpoint:

An "open list" for me is an "unmoderated list" where everybody may
join, and postings are possible without previous permission from a
moderator. A list where people can post without subscription (i.e.
without reading any answers to their postings and without first
checking if the subject has already been covered on the previous day)
might be appropriate in certain special situations, but definitely not
for standards work.

I have been an active member of 3 DIN (DIN = German standards institute)
standards working groups for 10 years now and I am head of the German
delegation in 2 ISO standards groups ("Software Ergonomics" and
"Programming Language Modula-2"), so if you consider me "spoiled by
ISO", please correct me. But my experience in standards work is that
"one way communication" (= throwing in one's own experiences without
listening to what others say before or after one's own utterances)
never really helped to progress or improve any standards.

Is the IETF experience in this regard really so different? I always
considered the IETF to be a "free ISO counterpart" where the technical
experts can do their jobs without having to bother with all the
politics of ISO (formal national nominations for every meeting,
national votes only, high membership charges etc.). I appreciate this
free IETF attitude very much, but I cannot really see why this
"freedom" should be extended to abusers of the internet (= spammers).

If "anonymous" postings should be permitted, we can always register a
dummy user "[email-masked]" (or something like that) as a
member of this list. The spammers are not going to use this, and
legitimate posters can always use this dummy name if they don't
remember under which name they have subscribed to the list.

- Wolfgang Redtenbacher
  (Head of Development)

Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 10:52:09 -0500
From: Paul Koning <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Recent Spam
Sender: [email-masked]

>>>>> "Werner" == Werner Koch <[email-masked]> writes:

 Werner> On Tue, Jan 04, 2000 at 08:24:43PM -0800 Tom Rushworth wrote:

 >> (1) blocking certain addresses (2) restricting posters to
 >> subscriber addresses (or some such) (3) changing the list name to
 >> temporarily dodge the spam.

 Werner> (4) Do only allow RFC822 compliant messages.

 Werner> I have noticed that most of these junk mails (frankly I don't
 Werner> know whether it is really junk as I am not able to read
 Werner> chinese(?)) are not RC822 compliant.  In most cases the mail
 Werner> headers do contain characters with bit 7 set - which is never
 Werner> allowed in the headers.

It isn't?  Weird.  That seems like a spec bug that's bound to get
fixed at some point, because of course it's an english-only
restriction that we aren't supposed to have anymore.  And perhaps my
memory is flaky, but I would have sworn that I've seen legit mail from 
Europe with Latin-1 characters in the headers.

	paul

Reply-To: James M Galvin <[email-masked]>
From: James M Galvin <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Recent Spam 
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 08:38:41 -0500
Sender: [email-masked]

------- =_aaaaaaaaaa0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-ID: <[email-masked]>

    "William H. Geiger III" <[email-masked]> said:

    All in all "spam" is a non-issue and there are really better things in
    life to worry about than a few unwanted messages.

The problem is it's not a few unwanted messages.  In the context of this
elist, maybe it's only "a few".  But I subscribe to many elists and it's
never just a few.  Besides, it's already been shown this elist has
gotten more than few.

It is possible to deal with spam at choke points, for example where the
elist is expanded.  I know because I'm a service provider and I do it
for a living.  However, I also know it's not as easy as any of the
suggestions offered here.

All the elist management applications I know have very limited
capabilities for dealing with spam.  Worse, if you're a site like
IMC.ORG that manages many elists, the applications are even less
effective at providing per elist "knobs".

In my experience the single best thing you can do to prevent spam is
restrict submissions to be from subscribers only.  But to do this you
need to moderate the submissions that bounce.  Few people have time for
this, and as Paul Hoffman pointed out, it is required for IETF elists.

It is possible to write/programs to manage the moderation, but let me
just say that I've thousands of lines of perl code to do this, and a
specialized channel for my mail system.  And I still have to do 5-15% by
hand, mostly because false positives are unacceptable.

My point is the problem is endemic to email, not any particular elist.
It's always possible to solve the problem with a reasonable set of
resources for one elist.  It's very hard to do in general.  Paul, the
manager of this elist, has the general problem.

Jim

------- =_aaaaaaaaaa0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-ID: <[email-masked]>
Content-Description: Contact Information

--
James M. Galvin                                  <[email-masked]>

To the optimist, the glass is half full.  To the pessimist, the glass is
half empty.  To the engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

------- =_aaaaaaaaaa0
Content-Type: message/rfc822

From: "William H. Geiger III" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 13:11:05 -0600
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Recent Spam
Sender: [email-masked]

In <[email-masked]>, on 01/04/00 
   at 01:11 PM, [email-masked] said:

>I am aware that during recent discussion of previous spam on this list
>some members have suggested that every member increase their individual
>"kill files". However, I cannot consider this to be an acceptable
>solution as it violates one of the design principles of the Internet: "If
>you can do something in one place, don't multiply the effort to many
>places."

>Moreover, in Europe many people pay for connection time.
>Therefore downloading spam (and thus paying for it) and then delete it
>(automatically or after inspection) is not a very efficient
>solution.

This is an *open* list. That means anyone can post here not just
subscribers. We even had David "FUD" Sternlight posting here a while back.
The amount a "spam" is quite lite <10 messages a month. DL times and the
amount of time/effort to hit the delete key is quite insignificant. Not to
mention the amount of time & bandwidth wasted on complaining about "spam"
generally exceeds that of the "spam" being complained about. So called
"solutions" to "spam" generally lead to a more restrictive environment for
all those involved and range from a minor inconvenience for the list
subscribers to the truly draconian.

All in all "spam" is a non-issue and there are really better things in
life to worry about than a few unwanted messages.

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III                    http://www.openpgp.net  
Geiger Consulting    

Data Security & Cryptology Consulting
Programming, Networking, Analysis
 
PGP for OS/2:                   http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
---------------------------------------------------------------

------- =_aaaaaaaaaa0--

From: "Damon W Edmondson" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: Recent Spam
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 08:09:46 -0500
Importance: Normal
Sender: [email-masked]

I guess I just want to know how to get of the mail list. I get 4 of these a
day. I don't normally get spam, and in case some of you folks don't realize
it, these emails contain macros and .dll files that try to execute on your
system.

These are almost virus like in their behavior....and I want nothing to do
with it.

So, if anyone knows how to unsubscribe, a repost of those instructions to
the group would be nice.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On
Behalf Of Werner Koch
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 3:35 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Recent Spam

 On Tue, Jan 04, 2000 at 08:24:43PM -0800
 Tom Rushworth wrote:

> (1) blocking certain addresses
> (2) restricting posters to subscriber addresses (or some such)
> (3) changing the list name to temporarily dodge the spam.

(4) Do only allow RFC822 compliant messages.

I have noticed that most of these junk mails (frankly I don't know
whether it is really junk as I am not able to read chinese(?)) are not
RC822 compliant.  In most cases the mail headers do contain characters
with bit 7 set - which is never allowed in the headers.

So a simple filter which looks for more than 2 or 3 bad characters in
the header lines (From, To, Subject) should be able to kick out 90%
percent of those mails.  The problem does not exist for this ML only:
Nearly all the junk mail I receive is of that kind.

It should be possible to hack procmail or Majordomo to do just this;
an option for sendmail,exim,qmail,postfix would even be better.

--
Werner Koch at guug.de           www.gnupg.org           keyid 621CC013

     Boycott Amazon!  -  http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/amazon.html

Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 09:34:54 +0100
From: Werner Koch <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Recent Spam
Mail-Followup-To: [email-masked]
Sender: [email-masked]

 On Tue, Jan 04, 2000 at 08:24:43PM -0800
 Tom Rushworth wrote:

> (1) blocking certain addresses
> (2) restricting posters to subscriber addresses (or some such)
> (3) changing the list name to temporarily dodge the spam.

(4) Do only allow RFC822 compliant messages.

I have noticed that most of these junk mails (frankly I don't know
whether it is really junk as I am not able to read chinese(?)) are not
RC822 compliant.  In most cases the mail headers do contain characters
with bit 7 set - which is never allowed in the headers.  

So a simple filter which looks for more than 2 or 3 bad characters in
the header lines (From, To, Subject) should be able to kick out 90%
percent of those mails.  The problem does not exist for this ML only:
Nearly all the junk mail I receive is of that kind.

It should be possible to hack procmail or Majordomo to do just this; 
an option for sendmail,exim,qmail,postfix would even be better.

-- 
Werner Koch at guug.de           www.gnupg.org           keyid 621CC013
  
     Boycott Amazon!  -  http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/amazon.html

Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 23:50:50 -0800 (PST)
From: ͨ;������ҵĿ¼ <[email-masked]>
To: 1 <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]

�ظ���: 
Subject:  tongtu.com:���������վ����,�Զ�������,�Զ�����Ӫ��
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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www.tongtu.com:����ͨ;��Ϣ�������޹�˾

��������:010-86261061 Email:[email-masked]

Everyday, several hundreds of companies publish information
here!

You may as well register all your information even if you
have already created your own website, Tongtu website is
just like a supermarket. To sell your products in the
supermarket is far better than to sell them in your own
sales department.

Compared with other similar websites, the features of
www.tongtu.com are:
1. We provide you an independent tradesite as your information
   distributing center: www.tongtu.com/???
2. There is no delay on registry and display of every piece of
   your information.
3. You can modify your information posted by yourself at any
   time with the log-in username and password
4. Every piece of your information will be automatically
   classified into the information center and the corresponding
   classified advertisements by the time you
   register.
5. Besides your company's brief introduction, you may also publish
   your products services, demands and news.
6. You may also publish your products and news together with
   pictures and photos
7. Every user's information center has a message board, so you
   can communicate freely with your visitors at any time.
8. The tongtu.com is completely self-service, so it is easy  to
   use and any background knowledge is unnecessary.
9. Your tradesite can be English or Chinese or both languages,
   so it will be known worldwide.
10.When your problem is solved, you may delete the published
   information to avoid unnecessary contacts.(i.e., your demands)

   If you have your own website and want to publish information on
   our website,just copy the information and paste it,  www.tongtu.com
   will do the necessary makeup automatically.
   Tongtu.com will gradually add services like online sale, online
   auction, etc. We will notify you through telephone or e-mail.

   Welcome to www.tongtu.com

                    Beijing Tongtu Information Technology Co.Ltd

Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 20:24:43 -0800
From: Tom Rushworth <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: "William H. Geiger III" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Recent Spam
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Sender: [email-masked]

--YZ5djTAD1cGYuMQK
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Tue, Jan 04, 2000 at 01:11:05PM -0600, William H. Geiger III wrote:
>=20
> This is an *open* list. That means anyone can post here not just
> subscribers. We even had David "FUD" Sternlight posting here a while back.

I agree with the general idea of "open", but I think there is a difference
between "wide open" and "open for anyone to discuss OpenPGP".  Do ads for
coolgirl this or 1,000,000 address that contribute to the discussion?  I
wish there were either an easy technical way to to spot the complete junk,
or an unbiased, well connected person who has nothing better to do with
his time but filter out the junk.  Since I don't know of either, I think
some discussion of alternatives is appropriate.

Suggestions I've seen (or even made) so far are:

(1) blocking certain addresses
(2) restricting posters to subscriber addresses (or some such)
(3) changing the list name to temporarily dodge the spam.

Both (1) and (2) would seem to fall into the "draconian" group, and (3) is =
only
temporary.

What about (4) requiring each posting to have a PGP signature, or
(5) requiring the message body to contain the phrase "OpenPGP"?
Either could be implemented in a way that didn't require human supervision,
and given the subject material of the list, should not be too onerous to
potential posters.  (I'm not suggesting that the signatures be verifiable,
simply that they be syntactically correct.  This would still let someone
who did not have a pgp key on a server send a message to the list.)

> The amount a "spam" is quite lite <10 messages a month. DL times and the

I had decided to count for a month or so before I opened my mouth again,
but the numbers you give don't come near matching even my partial results.
I've been saving all messages since December 12th in either pgp-junk or
pgp-real.  What follows are the sizes and message counts, not counting toda=
y's
messages.

$ ls -l pgp-*
-rw-------  1 tbr  user  347888 Jan  4 19:19 pgp-junk
-rw-------  1 tbr  user   32015 Jan  4 19:24 pgp-real
$ grep '^From imc.org!' pgp-junk | wc -l
      49=20
$ grep '^From imc.org!' pgp-real | wc -l=20
       9=20

> amount of time/effort to hit the delete key is quite insignificant. Not to
> mention the amount of time & bandwidth wasted on complaining about "spam"
> generally exceeds that of the "spam" being complained about. So called

Not if you measure it.  Perhaps in annoyance value if the discussion gets
under your skin :).

> "solutions" to "spam" generally lead to a more restrictive environment for
> all those involved and range from a minor inconvenience for the list
> subscribers to the truly draconian.

True enough, but I find the 5 to 1 ratio in messages an inconvience, and,
since I pay by the minute for downloads I find the 10 to 1 ratio in bytes
a real irritation.  Yes, I know the absolute cost is small, and I should
just accept it, like shopkeepers must accept shoplifting as part of the
cost of doing business.  I don't know many shopkeepers who do absolutely
nothing about their problem though.

>=20
> All in all "spam" is a non-issue and there are really better things in
> life to worry about than a few unwanted messages.

Sorta true, but the problem isn't quite as much of a non-issue for everyone,
and my impression is that the spam level is going up.  (I'll need a longer
time-line before that's more than an impression.)

If it is going up, this list could get drowned in the noise.  Given that
cryptographic signatures might someday provide a way to seriously curtail
spam, it's a bit ironic that this list should be plagued by it.

--=20
Tom Rushworth

--YZ5djTAD1cGYuMQK
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature

--YZ5djTAD1cGYuMQK--

Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 17:39:56 +0800
From: ��ӭ���ʺ������ <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sender: [email-masked]

�ظ���: 
Subject:  ��������ò,����������
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

  ������������ṩdreamweaver��ȫ��λ����,������dreamweaver 3������.
��ӭ����. http://thatis.163.net/
  �������ף���������,���������!

From: "William H. Geiger III" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 13:11:05 -0600
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Recent Spam
Sender: [email-masked]

In <[email-masked]>, on 01/04/00 
   at 01:11 PM, [email-masked] said:

>I am aware that during recent discussion of previous spam on this list
>some members have suggested that every member increase their individual
>"kill files". However, I cannot consider this to be an acceptable
>solution as it violates one of the design principles of the Internet: "If
>you can do something in one place, don't multiply the effort to many
>places."

>Moreover, in Europe many people pay for connection time.
>Therefore downloading spam (and thus paying for it) and then delete it
>(automatically or after inspection) is not a very efficient
>solution.

This is an *open* list. That means anyone can post here not just
subscribers. We even had David "FUD" Sternlight posting here a while back.
The amount a "spam" is quite lite <10 messages a month. DL times and the
amount of time/effort to hit the delete key is quite insignificant. Not to
mention the amount of time & bandwidth wasted on complaining about "spam"
generally exceeds that of the "spam" being complained about. So called
"solutions" to "spam" generally lead to a more restrictive environment for
all those involved and range from a minor inconvenience for the list
subscribers to the truly draconian.

All in all "spam" is a non-issue and there are really better things in
life to worry about than a few unwanted messages.

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III                    http://www.openpgp.net  
Geiger Consulting    

Data Security & Cryptology Consulting
Programming, Networking, Analysis
 
PGP for OS/2:                   http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
---------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 10:25:24 -0800
To: [email-masked]
From: Paul Hoffman / IMC <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Recent Spam
Cc: [email-masked]
Sender: [email-masked]

At 10:12 AM 1/4/00 -0800, Will Price wrote:
>How about just doing something simple like changing the list address to
>"ietf-openpgp" rather than "ietf-open-pgp".
>
>Solves the problem immediately and introduces no new restrictions.

I'd be happy to do this if the WG chair asks. It means him doing a bit of 
work with the IETF Secretariat, but that would be trivial. And I agree, it 
would eliminate the vast majority of the spam. (The address may eventually 
get re-harvested by the spammers, but many IMC-run lists have little or no 
spam on them.)

--Paul Hoffman, Director
--Internet Mail Consortium

Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 10:12:44 -0800
From: Will Price <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]
To: Paul Hoffman / IMC <[email-masked]>
CC: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Recent Spam
Sender: [email-masked]

How about just doing something simple like changing the list address to
"ietf-openpgp" rather than "ietf-open-pgp".

Solves the problem immediately and introduces no new restrictions.

-- Will

Will Price, Architect/Sr. Mgr., PGP Client Products
Total Network Security Division
Network Associates, Inc.

Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 10:04:43 -0800
To: [email-masked]
From: Paul Hoffman / IMC <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Recent Spam
Sender: [email-masked]

At 11:55 AM 1/4/00 -0500, [email-masked] wrote:
>Recently, the level of spam on this mailing list has increased a
>lot. I don't know who the operator/owner of this list is,

It's me. I'm listed in the greeting message everyone receives when subscribing.

>  but it
>should be quite easy to:
>
>(a) limit postings to this list to subscribers and
>
>(b) ban any repeated spammers like "*www11.heha.net",
>     "*ns.secondary.com", "*163.net", "*263.net" and "*cn.com".

Easy, yes. Proper for an IETF WG, no. Let's look at each proposal.

(a) The IESG has already said that they do not want any posting 
restrictions for WG mailing lists, specifically with this case. As someone 
else has already pointed out, they post from a different address, and 
they'd need to somehow "register" for each address they want to post from. 
Not only is this burdensome for the list admin, it means that if someone 
really needs to post an important note about the protocol but is on the 
road, they could be delayed by many days.

(b) ns.secondary.com is the mailer for this list; restricting it would be 
kinda bad. Restricting by suspected domain names would also possibly 
prevent legit posters.

>I am moderating 2 mailing lists of my own on "onelist.com", and
>it is quite easy to do such banning/filtering there. Therefore,
>if the "majordomo" software should not be able to do this (I have
>not checked it) we might consider switching to another list host.

If the WG chair wants to move the list, that's obviously no problem. I 
suspect, however, that if he moves it and imposes restrictions that are not 
appropriate for WG mailing lists, this would not be a good thing.

>  (Who should fight spam
>successfully if even the IETF members can't do it?)

Blocking spam and fighting spam are quite different. IMC is on the 
forefront of informing people about the technical measures available for both.

>As this list is not a support list for OpenPGP but some sort of
>"standards working group", we can easily restrict the posters to
>subscribers of the list, and then ban repeated spammers from the
>subcriber database.

I wish this were the case, but it's not. If you want to take this issue to 
the IESG (yet again), feel free to do so.

--Paul Hoffman, Director
--Internet Mail Consortium

Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 09:14:32 -0800 (PST)
From: [email-masked]
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Recent Spam
Sender: [email-masked]

[email-masked] wrote:
>I don't know who the operator/owner of this list is, but it
>should be quite easy to:
>(a) limit postings to this list to subscribers

Of course some of us post from addresses other than those we subscribe from...
but provided there's some kind of alternate address list that would be OK.

    Mark

From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 11:55:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Recent Spam
To: [email-masked]
Sender: [email-masked]

Recently, the level of spam on this mailing list has increased a
lot. I don't know who the operator/owner of this list is, but it
should be quite easy to:

(a) limit postings to this list to subscribers and

(b) ban any repeated spammers like "*www11.heha.net",
    "*ns.secondary.com", "*163.net", "*263.net" and "*cn.com".

I am moderating 2 mailing lists of my own on "onelist.com", and
it is quite easy to do such banning/filtering there. Therefore,
if the "majordomo" software should not be able to do this (I have
not checked it) we might consider switching to another list host.

I am responsible for a major OpenPGP pilot project with currently
ca. 40 cities in Southern Germany which is planned to be expanded
to a lot more cities (for more info [in German language] see
"http://www.redtenbacher.de/signatur/index.htm"). Therefore I
would very much prefer to stay on the OpenPGP mailing list to
ensure that I am always up-to-date on new developments. But I
consider it unacceptable that about 2/3 of all spam which I
receive comes from an IETF mailing list! (Who should fight spam
successfully if even the IETF members can't do it?)

As this list is not a support list for OpenPGP but some sort of
"standards working group", we can easily restrict the posters to
subscribers of the list, and then ban repeated spammers from the
subcriber database.

I am aware that during recent discussion of previous spam on this
list some members have suggested that every member increase their
individual "kill files". However, I cannot consider this to be an
acceptable solution as it violates one of the design principles
of the Internet: "If you can do something in one place, don't
multiply the effort to many places."

Moreover, in Europe many people pay for connection time.
Therefore downloading spam (and thus paying for it) and then
delete it (automatically or after inspection) is not a very
efficient solution.

- Wolfgang Redtenbacher

From: <Anonym>
To: <[email-masked]>
Author: Liu Yong Jun
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 15:20:20 
Subject: ��Ůд��-���Ծ���
Sender: [email-masked]

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Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 08:22:01 -0500 (EST)
From: "David M. Balenson" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Jan. 6th early registration deadline for NDSS 2000
Sender: [email-masked]

S A V E   $ 7 0   O F F   R E G I S T R A T I O N   F E E ! !
R E G I S T E R   B Y   J A N U A R Y   6 ,   2 0 0 0 

THE INTERNET SOCIETY'S
Year 2000 NETWORK AND DISTRIBUTED SYSTEM SECURITY (NDSS) SYMPOSIUM
February 2-4, 2000
Catamaran Resort Hotel, San Diego, California
General Chair:   Steve Welke, Trusted Computer Solutions
Program Chairs:  Gene Tsudik, USC/Information Sciences Institute
		 Avi Rubin, AT&T Labs - Research

ONLINE INFORMATION AND REGISTRATION:  http://www.isoc.org/ndss2000
EARLY REGISTRATION DISCOUNT DEADLINE:  January 6, 2000

The 7th annual NDSS Symposium brings together researchers,
implementers, and users of network and distributed system security
technologies to discuss today's important security issues and
challenges.  The Symposium provides a mix of technical papers and
panel presentations that describe promising new approaches to
security problems that are practical and, to the extent possible,
have been implemented.  NDSS fosters the exchange of technical
information and encourages the Internet community to deploy available
security technologies and develop new solutions to unsolved problems.

KEYNOTE SPEAKER: Gene Spafford, Professor of Computer Sciences at
Purdue University, an expert in information security, computer crime
investigation and information ethics.  Spaf (as he is known to his
friends, colleagues, and students) is director of the Purdue CERIAS
(Center for Education and Research in Information Assurance and
Security), and was the founder and director of the (now superseded)
COAST Laboratory. 

THIS YEAR'S TOPICS INCLUDE:
- Automated Detection of Buffer Overrun Vulnerabilities
- User-Level Infrastructure for System Call Interposition
- Optimized Group Rekey for Group Communication Systems
- IPSec-based Host Architecture for Secure  Internet Multicast
- The Economics of Security
- Automatic Generation of Security Protocols
- Security Protocols for SPKI-based Delegation Systems
- Secure Border Gateway Protocol (S-BGP)
- Analysis of a Fair Exchange Protocol
- Secure Password-Based Protocols for TLS
- Chameleon Signatures
- Lightweight Tool for Detecting Web Server Attacks
- Adaptive and Agile Applications Using Intrusion Detection
- Secure Virtual Enclaves
- Encrypted rlogin Connections Created With Kerberos IV
- Accountability and Control of Process Creation in Metasystems
- Red Teaming and Network Security

PRE-CONFERENCE TECHNICAL TUTORIALS:
- Network Security Protocol Standards, Dr. Stephen T. Kent
- Deployed and Emerging Security Systems for the Internet, Dr. Radia
  Perlman and Charlie Kaufman
- Mobile Code Security and Java 2 Architecture, Dr. Gary McGraw
- Cryptography 101, Dr. Aviel D. Rubin
- Public Key Infrastructure - The Truth and How to Find It, Dr. Daniel
  E. Geer, Jr.
- An Introduction to Intrusion Detection Technology, Mr. Mark Wood 

FOR MORE INFORMATION contact the Internet Society:
  Internet Society, 11150 Sunset Hills Road, Reston, VA, 20190 USA
  Phone: +1-703-326-9880         Fax: +1-703-326-9881
  E-mail: [email-masked]   URL: http://www.isoc.org/ndss2000/

SPONSORSHIP OPPORTUNITIES AVAILABLE!  Take advantage of this high
visibility event.  Contact Carla Rosenfeld at the Internet Society
at +1-703-326-9880 or send e-mail to [email-masked].

THE INTERNET SOCIETY is a non-governmental organization for global
cooperation and coordination for the Internet and its
internetworking technologies and applications.

From: "myweb" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Subject: welcome to myweb
To: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 14:12:43 +0800
Sender: [email-masked]

                     ////
                     ---
                   ( o o )
        +--------oOO-(_)-OOo---------(myweb)-+
        |------��ӭ���������ҵĸ�����վ------|
        |       http://best.163.com/~my      |
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        |���ע��,�����̳,��������ҡ����ȵ�|
        |-------------�ҵ�E-mail-------------|
        |           [email-masked]           |
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From: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
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Subject: [email-masked]
To: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 15:42:49 +0800
Sender: [email-masked]

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To: <[email-masked]>
Author: Liu Yong Jun
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:42:34 
Subject: ������Ϣ����ӭ����
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From: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Subject: [email-masked]
To: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 15:20:25 +0800
Sender: [email-masked]

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To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 07:56:29 +0800
Sender: [email-masked]

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Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 21:51:24 +0800
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=F360=CC=EC=BB=F2 60=CC=EC=BA=F3=B5=C4=B5=DA=D2=BB=B8=F6=D4=C2=C4=A9=BF=AA=
=CA=BC=BD=F8=D0=D0=BD=E1=CB=E3=A1=A3=D2=F2=CE=AA=B8=F7=B9=AB=CB=BE =B5=C4=
=B9=E3=B8=E6=BF=CD=BB=A7=D4=DA=D6=A7=B8=B6=B9=E3=B8=E6=B7=D1=CA=B1=D2=B2=BB=
=E1=D3=D0=D2=BB=B6=A8=B5=C4=D1=D3=B3=D9=A1=A3
=B8=F8spedia=B5=C4=D3=C3=BB=A7=CC=E1=B8=F6=D0=D1=A3=BAspedia =B9=E3=B8=E6=
=CC=F5=B2=BB=CA=C7=BF=AA=D2=BB=D2=B3=D6=BB=C4=DC=B7=C5=D2=BB=B8=F6=B9=E3=B8=
=E6=A3=AC=C3=BF=B5=B1=C4=E3=B5=E3=BB=F7=D2=B3=C4=DA=C1=B4=BD=D3 =BB=F2=CB=
=A2=D0=C2=D2=B3=C3=E6=B5=C4=CA=B1=BA=F2=B9=E3=B8=E6=BB=AD=C3=E6=BE=CD=BB=E1=
=B1=E4=BB=AF=B5=C4=A1=A3=B5=AB=C7=B0=CC=E1=CA=C7=C7=B0=D2=BB=B7=F9=B9=E3=B8=
=E6=BB=AD=C3=E6=D2=D1=BE=AD=CF=D4=CA=BE=C1=CB=BD=FC=D2=BB=B7=D6=D6=D3=C1=CB=
=A1=A3=C4=FA=D4=DA=CA=B9=D3=C3=B9=E3=B8=E6=CC=F5=B5=C4=B9=FD=B3=CC=D6=D0=C8=
=E7=B9=FB=B5=E3=BB=F7=B9=E3=B8=E6=CC=F5=D7=F3=B1=DF=B5=C4=A1=B0$=A1=B1=B1=
=EA=D6=BE=A3=AC=BE=CD=BB=E1=D3=D0=D2=BB=B8=F6=B4=B0=BF=DA=B5=AF=B3=F6=A3=AC=
=B4=B0=BF=DA=C4=DA=CA=C7=C4=FA=D5=CA=BB=A7=B5=C4=B5=B1=C7=B0=C7=E9=BF=F6=A1=
=A3=C6=E4=D6=D0=A3=BA
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=FD=A1=A3

=BB=B9=D3=D0=D2=BB=B5=E3=D0=E8=D2=AA=D7=A2=D2=E2=B5=C4=CA=C7=A3=BA=D0=C2=D3=
=C3=BB=A7=D4=DA=D7=A2=B2=E13=CC=EC=BA=F3=B2=C5=C4=DC=BF=B4=B5=BD=D7=D4=BC=
=BA=B5=C4=D5=CA=BB=A7=C7=E9=BF=F6=A3=AC=B5=AB=D4=DA=D5=E23=CC=EC=C4=DA=C4=
=E3=D7=AC=B5=C4=B5=E3=CA=FD=BA=CD=B7=A2=D5=B9=B5=C4=CF=C2=CF=DF=D2=C0=C8=BB=
=BB=E1=B1=BB=BC=C7=C2=BC=D4=DA=B0=B8=A1=A3=C7=D0=BC=C7=A3=A1
=A1=A1
=C4=FA=D4=DA=D7=A2=B2=E1=B3=C9=B9=A6=BA=F3=BB=E1=CA=D5=B5=BD=B9=AB=CB=BE=B5=
=C4E=A1=AA=A1=AAMAIL=C8=B7=C8=CF=BA=AF=A3=AC=C0=EF=C3=E6=D3=D0=C4=E3=B5=C4=
=D3=C3=BB=A7=C3=FB=A3=AC=C3=DC=C2=EB=BA=CD=BB=E1=D4=B1=B4=FA=C2=EB(referenc=
e number)=A3=AC=BF=C9=B2=BB=D2=AA=CD=FC=BC=C7=C1=CB=A3=A1=D2=D4=BA=F3=C4=FA=
=BF=C9=D2=D4=D3=C3=C4=E3=B5=C4=B4=FA=C2=EB=B4=FA=CC=E6=CE=D2=B5=C4=B4=FA=C2=
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=A6=B7=A2=D5=B9=B5=C4=CF=C2=CF=DF=BB=E1=D4=B1=BA=DC=B6=E0=A3=AC=C4=E3=C3=BF=
=CC=EC=B5=C4=B4=BF=CA=D5=C8=EB=BD=AB=BB=E1=BA=DC=B8=DF=A1=A3=C4=FA=BF=C9=D2=
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Reference Number:"=BA=F3=B5=C4=C4=C7=B8=F6=D6=B5=A1=A3

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From: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Subject: [email-masked]
To: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 01:26:07 +0800
Sender: [email-masked]

Gb at the first,BG5 at the middle,English at the end.
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Dear sir,
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you like to exchange with me?would you like to buy it?would you like
to get 10000 E-Mail addresses and send me only one?would you like me
to send your products' adertisement to all of my E-Mail addresses?
   Come on ,go to 
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   I am very sorry that you feel not good about the letter,please
setup your outlook,the refuse addresses is [email-masked] 

From: <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Author: Liu Yong Jun
Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 13:32:30 
Subject: ǧ�������
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--38485671--

From: "��������������ѧwww.sztc.org" <[email-masked]>
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Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 13:45:18 +0800
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