From adrian@olddog.co.uk Mon Oct 1 15:05:51 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A9BB11E80D5 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2012 15:05:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.367 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.367 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.232, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8HyrNN+D58n0 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2012 15:05:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp1.iomartmail.com (asmtp1.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.248]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94A8E11E809A for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2012 15:05:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp1.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q91M5cUn003201; Mon, 1 Oct 2012 23:05:38 +0100 Received: from 950129200 (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q91M5ajr003195 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 1 Oct 2012 23:05:37 +0100 From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 23:05:35 +0100 Message-ID: <0b8001cda020$e2dfae40$a89f0ac0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: Ac2gIN2XoC/4n/+jR66mqys2kkRC2g== Content-Language: en-gb Cc: danli@huawei.com, dbrungard@att.com, stbryant@cisco.com Subject: [RTG-DIR] Routing Directorate dinner in Atlanta X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2012 22:05:51 -0000 Hi, Turns out there will only be a Monday night (marathon) plenary in Atlanta which may leave us a little more free time to have dinner on Wednesday night. Stewart and I think that "beer and pizza" or equivalent will be more flexible and interesting than a five course banquet. Could you please register your willingness to attend via http://www.doodle.com/amc8mauqx6r4qddi I'll leave the poll open for a while and try to prod you again before I close it. Oh, and for the avoidance of doubt, we love you all, but you get to pay your own way! Cheers, Adrian and Stewart From acee.lindem@ericsson.com Mon Oct 1 16:15:25 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CE681F0CF9 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2012 16:15:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.494 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.494 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.105, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n5XpXnHjp9VU for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2012 16:15:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imr3.ericy.com (imr3.ericy.com [198.24.6.13]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A86611F0CC4 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2012 16:15:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eusaamw0712.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.181]) by imr3.ericy.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q91NFLLh031173 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 1 Oct 2012 18:15:22 -0500 Received: from EUSAACMS0702.eamcs.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.166]) by eusaamw0712.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.181]) with mapi; Mon, 1 Oct 2012 19:15:22 -0400 From: Acee Lindem To: Adrian Farrel , Stewart Bryant Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 19:15:20 -0400 Thread-Topic: [RTG-DIR] Routing Directorate dinner in Atlanta Thread-Index: Ac2gKqFRiOPFEUVDQSWc4uHl2rok7A== Message-ID: References: <0b8001cda020$e2dfae40$a89f0ac0$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <0b8001cda020$e2dfae40$a89f0ac0$@olddog.co.uk> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail-10--688550546"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "rtg-dir@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] Routing Directorate dinner in Atlanta X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2012 23:15:25 -0000 --Apple-Mail-10--688550546 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Oct 1, 2012, at 6:05 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote: > Hi, >=20 > Turns out there will only be a Monday night (marathon) plenary in = Atlanta which > may leave us a little more free time to have dinner on Wednesday = night. >=20 > Stewart and I think that "beer and pizza" or equivalent will be more = flexible > and interesting than a five course banquet. In that case, this might do.=20 http://maxlagers.com/ One risk is the WG chairs picking the same place and it being slammed.=20= Acee=20 >=20 > Could you please register your willingness to attend via > http://www.doodle.com/amc8mauqx6r4qddi I'll leave the poll open for a = while and > try to prod you again before I close it. >=20 > Oh, and for the avoidance of doubt, we love you all, but you get to = pay your own > way! >=20 > Cheers, > Adrian and Stewart >=20 --Apple-Mail-10--688550546 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIM8jCCBDQw ggMcoAMCAQICECFWwVQHDV12M/Sr0yNv0sYwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwOTERMA8GA1UECgwIRXJp Y3Nzb24xJDAiBgNVBAMMG0VyaWNzc29uIE5MIEluZGl2aWR1YWwgQ0EwMTAeFw0xMDEwMDEyMDA0 NTlaFw0xMzEwMDEyMDA0NDhaMG8xETAPBgNVBAoMCEVyaWNzc29uMR8wHQYDVQQDDBZBY2VlIExp 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andrew.g.malis@verizon.com Mon Oct 8 17:55:16 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DC0411E80F5 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2012 17:55:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.549 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.549 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.050, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NomgSm1xsQJx for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2012 17:55:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fldsmtpe03.verizon.com (fldsmtpe03.verizon.com [140.108.26.142]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7331E11E80DF for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2012 17:55:15 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: false Received: from unknown (HELO fldsmtpi02.verizon.com) ([166.68.71.144]) by fldsmtpe03.verizon.com with ESMTP; 09 Oct 2012 00:55:14 +0000 From: "Malis, Andrew G \(Andy\)" X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.80,556,1344211200"; d="scan'208";a="343793169" Received: from fhdp1lumxc7hb04.verizon.com (HELO FHDP1LUMXC7HB04.us.one.verizon.com) ([166.68.59.191]) by fldsmtpi02.verizon.com with ESMTP; 09 Oct 2012 00:55:14 +0000 Received: from fhdp1lumxc7v22.us.one.verizon.com ([166.68.59.158]) by FHDP1LUMXC7HB04.us.one.verizon.com ([166.68.59.191]) with mapi; Mon, 8 Oct 2012 20:55:14 -0400 To: Tomonori Takeda , "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 20:55:13 -0400 Thread-Topic: RtgDir review: draft-ietf-ccamp-rfc5787bis-05.txt Thread-Index: Ac2luL09JRSHawpISvC399FpSq2HmA== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <502522AE.1060301@lab.ntt.co.jp> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.4.120824 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 08 Oct 2012 20:19:25 -0700 Cc: "rtg-dir@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-ccamp-rfc5787bis.all@tools.ietf.org" , "Malis, Andrew G \(Andy\)" Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-ccamp-rfc5787bis-05.txt X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2012 00:55:16 -0000 Tomonori, Thanks for your review, and sorry for the delay on the response, but we've also been working on incorporating other changes to the draft as well. In working on your comments, I wanted to respond to your comment #4 below. In response to question a, requirements 7 and 8 are a (perhaps too?) succinct distillation of the text in section 3.2 of RFC 4258. Requirements 14 and 15 come from the totality of text in that section, not just the two approaches towwards the end of the section. Thanks again, Andy On 8/10/2012 11:03 , "Tomonori Takeda" wrote: Hello, I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and sometimes on special request. The purpose of the review is to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. For more information about the Routing Directorate, please see http://www.ietf.org/iesg/directorate/routing.html Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through discussion or by updating the draft. Document: draft-ietf-ccamp-rfc5787bis-05.txt Reviewer: Tomonori Takeda Review Date: 2012-08-10 IETF LC End Date: 2012-08-17 Intended Status: Proposed Standard Summary: This document is basically ready for publication, but has nits that should be considered prior to publication. Comments: This document defines OSPF extensions to meet the requirements for ASON routing expressed in RFC 4258. This document obsoletes RFC 5787, which is an experimental version of OSPF extensions for ASON routing. Major Issues: None Minor Issues: None Nits: 1) In Section 4, last line, it says "refer to section 6.1", which should be "refer to section 6.2". 2) In Section 6.1, last paragraph, there are two places with "the Local and Remote ID sub-TLV", which should be "the Local and Remote TE Router ID sub-TLV". 3) In Section 11.1, 7th line, it says "with RCs in the same RC", which should be "with RCs in the same RA". 4) In Section 12, requirements from RFC 4258 are listed. I am wondering how these requirements are picked from RFC 4258. My guess is that requirements are largely from text with "MUST" "SHALL" "SHOULD" in RFC 4258, but several requirements listed in Section 12 are not clear to me. Specifically, a) Requirements #7 and #8 - I could not find corresponding text in RFC 4258. Have I missed something? b) Requirements #14 and #15 - My reading of RFC 4258 is that these are just "approaches" and not "requirements". Thanks, Tomonori From adrian@olddog.co.uk Wed Oct 17 11:38:35 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0EDA21F84EE; Wed, 17 Oct 2012 11:38:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.524 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.524 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.075, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hEekUUHDinbL; Wed, 17 Oct 2012 11:38:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (asmtp3.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.159]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20CBB21F84EA; Wed, 17 Oct 2012 11:38:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q9HIcX09023662; Wed, 17 Oct 2012 19:38:33 +0100 Received: from 950129200 (westford-nat.juniper.net [66.129.232.2]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q9HIcVOJ023648 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 17 Oct 2012 19:38:32 +0100 From: "Adrian Farrel" To: , , Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 19:38:33 +0100 Message-ID: <073b01cdac96$9d9916a0$d8cb43e0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: Ac2slpo1YVH5xNziTOiiRLLSB9qB1w== Content-Language: en-gb Subject: [RTG-DIR] Routing ADs Open Office in Atlanta X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 18:38:36 -0000 Hi, Sunday 14.30 to 16.00 Location is the IESG Breakout Room. Please ask a member of the Secretariat or look for an email nearer the time to decode exactly which room that will be. Everyone welcome. Come and raise your concerns, issues, ideas for routing or the operation of the Area. Thanks, Adrian and Stewart From adrian@olddog.co.uk Wed Oct 17 11:43:24 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA85821F856C for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2012 11:43:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.539 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.539 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.060, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iawGG7X4qalF for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2012 11:43:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp5.iomartmail.com (asmtp5.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.176]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B743A21F8525 for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2012 11:43:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp5.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp5.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q9HIhEkU001357; Wed, 17 Oct 2012 19:43:14 +0100 Received: from 950129200 (westford-nat.juniper.net [66.129.232.2]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp5.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q9HIhCEw001322 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 17 Oct 2012 19:43:13 +0100 From: "Adrian Farrel" To: References: <0b8001cda020$e2dfae40$a89f0ac0$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <0b8001cda020$e2dfae40$a89f0ac0$@olddog.co.uk> Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 19:43:13 +0100 Message-ID: <073c01cdac97$44e0ba30$cea22e90$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQHcwr7uu+VAV3RKQIEI+udfRRB0gJefqC5w Content-Language: en-gb Cc: danli@huawei.com, dbrungard@att.com, stbryant@cisco.com Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] Routing Directorate dinner in Atlanta X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 18:43:25 -0000 Definitely planning to go ahead with this on Wednesday evening (even though the marathon plenary will be on Wednesday, not Monday). Expecting to gather at around 7.45 and head out not too far. So far I have just 9 names on the Doodle poll. Please sign up http://www.doodle.com/amc8mauqx6r4qddi Adrian > -----Original Message----- > From: rtg-dir-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:rtg-dir-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Adrian Farrel > Sent: 01 October 2012 23:06 > To: rtg-dir@ietf.org > Cc: danli@huawei.com; dbrungard@att.com; stbryant@cisco.com > Subject: [RTG-DIR] Routing Directorate dinner in Atlanta > > Hi, > > Turns out there will only be a Monday night (marathon) plenary in Atlanta which > may leave us a little more free time to have dinner on Wednesday night. > > Stewart and I think that "beer and pizza" or equivalent will be more flexible > and interesting than a five course banquet. > > Could you please register your willingness to attend via > http://www.doodle.com/amc8mauqx6r4qddi I'll leave the poll open for a while > and > try to prod you again before I close it. > > Oh, and for the avoidance of doubt, we love you all, but you get to pay your own > way! > > Cheers, > Adrian and Stewart From russw@riw.us Wed Oct 17 14:01:54 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6326021F8578; Wed, 17 Oct 2012 14:01:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YWXVXG1xvtpc; Wed, 17 Oct 2012 14:01:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from da31.namelessnet.net (da31.namelessnet.net [74.124.205.66]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03EC021F846A; Wed, 17 Oct 2012 14:01:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rrcs-24-199-145-66.midsouth.biz.rr.com ([24.199.145.66] helo=[192.168.3.130]) by da31.namelessnet.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1TOakN-0005oj-30; Wed, 17 Oct 2012 14:01:47 -0700 Message-ID: <507F1CC1.7070301@riw.us> Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 17:01:53 -0400 From: Russ White User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121010 Thunderbird/16.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Antivirus-Scanner: Seems clean. You should still use an Antivirus Scanner Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org, karp@ietf.org, draft-ietf-karp-ospf-analysis.all@tools.ietf.org Subject: [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-karp-ospf-analysis-05 X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 21:01:54 -0000 Hello, I have been selected as the Routing Directorate reviewer for this draft. The Routing Directorate seeks to review all routing or routing-related drafts as they pass through IETF last call and IESG review, and sometimes on special request. The purpose of the review is to provide assistance to the Routing ADs. For more information about the Routing Directorate, please see http://www.ietf.org/iesg/directorate/routing.html Although these comments are primarily for the use of the Routing ADs, it would be helpful if you could consider them along with any other IETF Last Call comments that you receive, and strive to resolve them through discussion or by updating the draft. Document: draft-ietf-karp-ospf-analysis-05 Reviewer: Russ White Review Date: 17 October 2012 IETF LC End Date: Intended Status: Informational Summary: I have some minor concerns about this document that I think should be resolved before publication. Comments: This draft is well written and formatted, and serves a useful need within the intersection of security and routing protocols. In general, the draft is ready for publication, but I did have one or two questions or areas where things might be clarified in order to make the final result more readable. Major Issues: None Minor Issues: The OSPFv2 replay mechanism does not handle packet priorities as described. If packets are processed out-of-order, then if the sequence number increases, packets processed later will be discarded. I'm not certain I understand this --packet processing priority within the ospf process, or for inbound queue processing? Or for processing packets in the order in which they are recieved? It might be useful to explain which one is being discussed. == There is another serious problem with the OSPFv3 security: rather than being integrated into OSPF, it is based on IPsec. In practice, this has lead to deployment problems. I assume this means in terms of deployment difficulty --I'd just like to make certain the WG agreed with this assessment overall (while I tend to agree, I remember there being some pushback on this type of statement in the past). Nits: Single space after periods throughout == Russ From hejia@huawei.com Thu Oct 18 01:02:31 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AFF621F8559 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2012 01:02:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.791 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.791 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.734, BAYES_00=-2.599, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BmhKVPmJJuom for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2012 01:02:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DF0821F84F3 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2012 01:02:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml203-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.5-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id ALT07248; Thu, 18 Oct 2012 08:02:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML405-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.242) by lhreml203-edg.huawei.com (172.18.7.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Thu, 18 Oct 2012 09:01:21 +0100 Received: from SZXEML432-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.72.61.60) by lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.242) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Thu, 18 Oct 2012 09:02:13 +0100 Received: from SZXEML505-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.19]) by SZXEML432-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.72.61.60]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.003; Thu, 18 Oct 2012 16:02:01 +0800 From: Hejia To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , "rtg-dir@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [RTG-DIR] Routing Directorate dinner in Atlanta Thread-Index: AQHcwr7uu+VAV3RKQIEI+udfRRB0gJefqC5wgAB1oDA= Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 08:02:01 +0000 Message-ID: <735916399E11684EAF4EB4FB376B7195264A829A@SZXEML505-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <0b8001cda020$e2dfae40$a89f0ac0$@olddog.co.uk> <073c01cdac97$44e0ba30$cea22e90$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <073c01cdac97$44e0ba30$cea22e90$@olddog.co.uk> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.66.76.169] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: Lidan , "dbrungard@att.com" , "stbryant@cisco.com" Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] Routing Directorate dinner in Atlanta X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 08:02:31 -0000 SGkgYWxsLA0KDQpJdCdzIGEgcGl0eSB0aGF0IEknbSBub3QgZ29pbmcgdG8gdGhlIElFVEYgODV0 aCBtZWV0aW5nLiBXaXNoIHlvdSBhbGwgYSBwbGVhc2FudCBkaW5uZXIuIA0KDQpCLlIuDQpKaWEN Cg0KLS0tLS3Tyrz+1K28/i0tLS0tDQq3orz+yMs6IHJ0Zy1kaXItYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZyBb bWFpbHRvOnJ0Zy1kaXItYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZ10gtPqx7SBBZHJpYW4gRmFycmVsDQq3osvN yrG85DogMjAxMsTqMTDUwjE4yNUgMjo0Mw0KytW8/sjLOiBydGctZGlyQGlldGYub3JnDQqzrcvN OiBMaWRhbjsgZGJydW5nYXJkQGF0dC5jb207IHN0YnJ5YW50QGNpc2NvLmNvbQ0K1vfM4jogUmU6 IFtSVEctRElSXSBSb3V0aW5nIERpcmVjdG9yYXRlIGRpbm5lciBpbiBBdGxhbnRhDQoNCkRlZmlu aXRlbHkgcGxhbm5pbmcgdG8gZ28gYWhlYWQgd2l0aCB0aGlzIG9uIFdlZG5lc2RheSBldmVuaW5n IChldmVuIHRob3VnaCB0aGUNCm1hcmF0aG9uIHBsZW5hcnkgd2lsbCBiZSBvbiBXZWRuZXNkYXks IG5vdCBNb25kYXkpLiBFeHBlY3RpbmcgdG8gZ2F0aGVyIGF0DQphcm91bmQgNy40NSBhbmQgaGVh ZCBvdXQgbm90IHRvbyBmYXIuDQoNClNvIGZhciBJIGhhdmUganVzdCA5IG5hbWVzIG9uIHRoZSBE b29kbGUgcG9sbC4NClBsZWFzZSBzaWduIHVwIGh0dHA6Ly93d3cuZG9vZGxlLmNvbS9hbWM4bWF1 cXg2cjRxZGRpDQoNCkFkcmlhbg0KDQo+IC0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQo+IEZy b206IHJ0Zy1kaXItYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZyBbbWFpbHRvOnJ0Zy1kaXItYm91bmNlc0BpZXRm Lm9yZ10gT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mDQo+IEFkcmlhbiBGYXJyZWwNCj4gU2VudDogMDEgT2N0b2JlciAy MDEyIDIzOjA2DQo+IFRvOiBydGctZGlyQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IENjOiBkYW5saUBodWF3ZWkuY29t OyBkYnJ1bmdhcmRAYXR0LmNvbTsgc3RicnlhbnRAY2lzY28uY29tDQo+IFN1YmplY3Q6IFtSVEct RElSXSBSb3V0aW5nIERpcmVjdG9yYXRlIGRpbm5lciBpbiBBdGxhbnRhDQo+IA0KPiBIaSwNCj4g DQo+IFR1cm5zIG91dCB0aGVyZSB3aWxsIG9ubHkgYmUgYSBNb25kYXkgbmlnaHQgKG1hcmF0aG9u KSBwbGVuYXJ5IGluIEF0bGFudGENCndoaWNoDQo+IG1heSBsZWF2ZSB1cyBhIGxpdHRsZSBtb3Jl IGZyZWUgdGltZSB0byBoYXZlIGRpbm5lciBvbiBXZWRuZXNkYXkgbmlnaHQuDQo+IA0KPiBTdGV3 YXJ0IGFuZCBJIHRoaW5rIHRoYXQgImJlZXIgYW5kIHBpenphIiBvciBlcXVpdmFsZW50IHdpbGwg YmUgbW9yZSBmbGV4aWJsZQ0KPiBhbmQgaW50ZXJlc3RpbmcgdGhhbiBhIGZpdmUgY291cnNlIGJh bnF1ZXQuDQo+IA0KPiBDb3VsZCB5b3UgcGxlYXNlIHJlZ2lzdGVyIHlvdXIgd2lsbGluZ25lc3Mg dG8gYXR0ZW5kIHZpYQ0KPiBodHRwOi8vd3d3LmRvb2RsZS5jb20vYW1jOG1hdXF4NnI0cWRkaSBJ J2xsIGxlYXZlIHRoZSBwb2xsIG9wZW4gZm9yIGEgd2hpbGUNCj4gYW5kDQo+IHRyeSB0byBwcm9k IHlvdSBhZ2FpbiBiZWZvcmUgSSBjbG9zZSBpdC4NCj4gDQo+IE9oLCBhbmQgZm9yIHRoZSBhdm9p ZGFuY2Ugb2YgZG91YnQsIHdlIGxvdmUgeW91IGFsbCwgYnV0IHlvdSBnZXQgdG8gcGF5IHlvdXIN Cm93bg0KPiB3YXkhDQo+IA0KPiBDaGVlcnMsDQo+IEFkcmlhbiBhbmQgU3Rld2FydA0KDQo= From adrian@olddog.co.uk Thu Oct 18 05:57:01 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEDE621F859E; Thu, 18 Oct 2012 05:57:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.500, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Xt6IZj3mMfST; Thu, 18 Oct 2012 05:57:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp1.iomartmail.com (asmtp1.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.248]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E875221F8496; Thu, 18 Oct 2012 05:57:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp1.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q9ICuw2W027446; Thu, 18 Oct 2012 13:56:58 +0100 Received: from 950129200 (ip-64-134-64-1.public.wayport.net [64.134.64.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q9ICuvlR027437 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 18 Oct 2012 13:56:58 +0100 From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Abdussalam Baryun'" References: <073b01cdac96$9d9916a0$d8cb43e0$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 13:56:59 +0100 Message-ID: <088501cdad30$105d5540$3117ffc0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQLTtEcZuCDkz7wz+jxq33GCrcbkngICen2BlaLi3fA= Content-Language: en-gb Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org, routing-discussion@ietf.org, rtg-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] Routing ADs Open Office in Atlanta X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 12:57:02 -0000 Hi Abdussalam, You'll excuse me, I hope, if I respond to your email just on routing-discussion@ietf.org to avoid cross-posting and duplicates, etc. Adrian > -----Original Message----- > From: Abdussalam Baryun [mailto:abdussalambaryun@gmail.com] > Sent: 18 October 2012 10:16 > To: adrian@olddog.co.uk > Cc: rtg-chairs@ietf.org; routing-discussion@ietf.org; rtg-dir@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Routing ADs Open Office in Atlanta > > Hi Adrian, > > I want to start from now to post my questions if possible, because I > may not be able to be in Atlanta. My questions are: > > 1- How can we have IETF MANET and ROLL WGs guided to work together to > advise participants not to overlap concepts related to such WG? > > 2- How can we make any WG within Routing Area to concider the mailing > list as the point of making/taking/suggesting decisions not only > through Face-to-Face meetings? > > 3- Do we in IETF concider WG minutes document without consensus of WG? > > thanking you, > > AB > > On 10/17/12, Adrian Farrel wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Sunday 14.30 to 16.00 > > > > Location is the IESG Breakout Room. Please ask a member of the Secretariat > > or > > look for an email nearer the time to decode exactly which room that will > > be. > > > > Everyone welcome. > > Come and raise your concerns, issues, ideas for routing or the operation of > > the > > Area. > > > > Thanks, > > Adrian and Stewart > > > > _______________________________________________ > > routing-discussion mailing list > > routing-discussion@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion > > From leeyoung@huawei.com Thu Oct 18 10:22:02 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E51321F877A; Thu, 18 Oct 2012 10:21:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from 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dfweml407-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.193.5.132]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.003; Thu, 18 Oct 2012 10:21:49 -0700 From: Leeyoung To: "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" Thread-Topic: RtgDir review: draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ted-mib-14.txt Thread-Index: AQHNrVUOsw0jlNebbkWWRrXkkxw8+g== Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 17:21:49 +0000 Message-ID: <7AEB3D6833318045B4AE71C2C87E8E1729089755@dfweml511-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: <507F1CC1.7070301@riw.us> In-Reply-To: <507F1CC1.7070301@riw.us> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.192.11.137] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "rtg-dir@ietf.org" , CCAMP , "draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ted-mib.all@tools.ietf.org" Subject: [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ted-mib-14.txt X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , 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From narten@us.ibm.com Mon Oct 22 08:47:29 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBA7C21F8BB1 for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2012 08:47:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.282 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.282 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.317, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5IBV93TFwItU for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2012 08:47:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from e8.ny.us.ibm.com (e8.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.138]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9BEF21F84E4 for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2012 08:47:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from /spool/local by e8.ny.us.ibm.com with IBM ESMTP SMTP Gateway: Authorized Use Only! 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Violators will be prosecuted; Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:36:37 -0400 Received: from d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (d01relay04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.227.236]) by d01dlp01.pok.ibm.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F076C38C80A2; Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:36:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d01av04.pok.ibm.com (d01av04.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.64]) by d01relay04.pok.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v10.0) with ESMTP id q9MFaO6T297144; Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:36:24 -0400 Received: from d01av04.pok.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d01av04.pok.ibm.com (8.14.4/8.13.1/NCO v10.0 AVout) with ESMTP id q9MFZZcJ031491; Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:35:38 -0400 Received: from cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com (sig-9-65-211-49.mts.ibm.com [9.65.211.49]) by d01av04.pok.ibm.com (8.14.4/8.13.1/NCO v10.0 AVin) with ESMTP id q9MFZWBL031140 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:35:33 -0400 Received: from cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com (8.14.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id q9MFZOAQ007651; Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:35:25 -0400 Message-Id: <201210221535.q9MFZOAQ007651@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> To: "Bhatia, Manav (Manav)" In-reply-to: <7C362EEF9C7896468B36C9B79200D8350D064CAF3A@INBANSXCHMBSA1.in.alcatel-lucent.com> References: <7C362EEF9C7896468B36C9B79200D8350D063A0AF5@INBANSXCHMBSA1.in.alcatel-lucent.com> <201208272124.q7RLOnx7015943@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <7C362EEF9C7896468B36C9B79200D8350D06450BB6@INBANSXCHMBSA1.in.alcatel-lucent.com> <201208291458.q7TEwgxI011886@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <7C362EEF9C7896468B36C9B79200D8350D064CAF3A@INBANSXCHMBSA1.in.alcatel-lucent.com> Comments: In-reply-to "Bhatia, Manav (Manav)" message dated "Thu, 30 Aug 2012 21:06:25 +0530." Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:35:24 -0400 From: Thomas Narten X-Content-Scanned: Fidelis XPS MAILER x-cbid: 12102215-9360-0000-0000-00000BF1991C X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 09:24:30 -0700 Cc: "rtg-dir@ietf.org" , "armd@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-armd-problem-statement.all@tools.ietf.org" , "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] RtgDir review: draft-ietf-armd-problem-statement-03 X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 15:47:30 -0000 Hi Manav. Getting back to this thread... "Bhatia, Manav (Manav)" writes: > Hi Thomas, > > > > > However, the draft still says "multicast frames do not necessarily > > > need to be sent to all parts of the network". I could be missing > > > something but there still seems to be some disconnect > > because in the > > > context of L2, multicast frames will be sent to all parts of the > > > network. > > > > L2 IGMP snooping may be taking place, which can then result > > in multicast traffic not being forwarded everywhere in the L2 > > broadcst domain... > Yes, that's correct. So youre suggesting that IGMP snooping will > help reduce "ARP" traffic in case of IPv6. Do hosts send out MLD > reports for the link local addresses that they expect to receive the > Neighbor Discovery messages on? If they don't, then snooping will be > of no help in reducing IPv6 ND traffic that the draft is discussing > in that section. Yes, IPv6 hosts do send out MLD reports for LL multicast. This was done precisely as a concession to snooping bridges. > > > > > Yes it does as long as you remove the original line that I had > > quoted. > > > > Removing that line IMO removes something essential. It is the > > case that on some routers (i.e., devices at the edge of an L2 > > boundary) do not have sufficient resources to process "a lot > > of ARP traffic". "a lot" is in quotes because we don't have > > an exact figure for what that is. This is one of the key > > points to come out of the ARMD effort. > > > > What exactly do you object to in that sentence? > My concern with the opening sentence of Sec 7.1 is that it > generalizes large L2 domains and makes a sweeping statement that > seems to suggest that all routers in large L2 domains need to > process "a lot of " ARP traffic. This is patently incorrect. As I > have said earlier, this issue is specific to L2 domains that see a > lot of ARP/ND traffic and is not true in general for all large L2 > domains. OK. I changed the sentence at issue to: One pain point with large L2 broadcast domains is that the routers connected to the L2 domain may need to process "a lot of" ARP traffic in some cases. In particular, environments where the aggregate level of ARP traffic is very large may lead to a heavy ARP load on routers. Does that work? Thomas From d3e3e3@gmail.com Mon Oct 22 10:40:17 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5955B11E80A2 for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2012 10:40:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.368 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.368 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.231, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vDapDMvs8Yfm for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2012 10:40:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ia0-f172.google.com (mail-ia0-f172.google.com [209.85.210.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9050211E80E3 for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2012 10:40:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ia0-f172.google.com with SMTP id o25so2697707iad.31 for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2012 10:40:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=pN1MfdAoz0K29JxsYG+gnrRDNTc+DvC/kL7dy9os4+4=; b=gv4bRkDsRLbPWn277lUUnlD35OAwHqEX5EYQFxVXfhBm4PEHQjb3/TPsttsTkRLUob GzFB/eloueHGJVtC/2Yz6LASliVREAHMNwBSmyNQVAJ2gmwVnw47v9AkyHh2mF85BtIe nR3YDL5IMeEOWaPFuG1cATxmnBWO05sXUPuLMLNF5OkVn+nNd4uNYCvGQUMPA2u8RtO2 MglLHuhYV/OotIe2jSEFPQ0ioP0Z7uLHCiraEeymNz9wcNGKlZiyF1cQ4kMpX9KGjCEF 7Jaahv78xbMXhUgn4yQ32b3jYJq3FcSLlRxKPywf056oOdzjYsrQjOYfJEbtSF5PNAnk AvFA== Received: by 10.50.196.193 with SMTP id io1mr10211502igc.59.1350927616218; Mon, 22 Oct 2012 10:40:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.64.176.134 with HTTP; Mon, 22 Oct 2012 10:39:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Donald Eastlake Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 13:39:56 -0400 Message-ID: To: rtg-dir@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: isis-chairs@tools.ietf.org, trill-chairs@tools.ietf.org, draft-ierf-isis-rfc6326bis@tools.ietf.org, rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: [RTG-DIR] Requesting a Routing Directorate review of draft-ietf-isis-rfc6326bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 17:40:17 -0000 Hi, Would it be possible for me to request a Routing Directorate review of draft-ietf-isis-rfc6326bis? Thanks, Donald ============================= Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com From adrian@olddog.co.uk Mon Oct 22 10:54:04 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B37D21F85C1 for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2012 10:54:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.313 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.313 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.286, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M278AB4+26Bk for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2012 10:54:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp1.iomartmail.com (asmtp1.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.248]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02DD521F856D for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2012 10:54:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp1.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q9MHs0h8015185; Mon, 22 Oct 2012 18:54:01 +0100 Received: from 950129200 (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q9MHrxnn015167 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 22 Oct 2012 18:54:00 +0100 From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Donald Eastlake'" , References: In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 18:53:58 +0100 Message-ID: <0e1901cdb07e$36b2fc80$a418f580$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQJulnW1w9Fk4P+akxJeKAXs3eisK5aDzhkA Content-Language: en-gb Cc: isis-chairs@tools.ietf.org, trill-chairs@tools.ietf.org, draft-ierf-isis-rfc6326bis@tools.ietf.org, rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] Requesting a Routing Directorate review of draft-ietf-isis-rfc6326bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 17:54:04 -0000 Hi Donald, What are you looking for in an early review? Is there something specific you think the ISIS WG might not find, or perhaps you are worried that the WG is not giving enough attention? Adrian > -----Original Message----- > From: Donald Eastlake [mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com] > Sent: 22 October 2012 18:40 > To: rtg-dir@ietf.org > Cc: isis-chairs@tools.ietf.org; rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org; draft-ierf-isis- > rfc6326bis@tools.ietf.org; trill-chairs@tools.ietf.org > Subject: Requesting a Routing Directorate review of draft-ietf-isis-rfc6326bis- > 00.txt > > Hi, > > Would it be possible for me to request a Routing Directorate review of > draft-ietf-isis-rfc6326bis? > > Thanks, > Donald > ============================= > Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) > 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA > d3e3e3@gmail.com From d3e3e3@gmail.com Mon Oct 22 11:20:36 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58F931F0C44 for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:20:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.378 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.378 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.221, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cwoPn70lb9+8 for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:20:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ia0-f172.google.com (mail-ia0-f172.google.com [209.85.210.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACBC021F894D for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:20:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ia0-f172.google.com with SMTP id o25so2730597iad.31 for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:20:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=a5bowgnGIbZAvac2KtUjtugx8LpD5Lbkm4qaEhJTWWs=; b=VjysP4efRhvEpd5+E23Qq0IHZ+oWLNAQi8QPBu4HpOJRoqBwd0BAE4gTRh4nZCG2i7 knT5MuqTLiDbFoJb7bpgBXhU8Ie0beIPcT/MhD23AoYxPRLkKzc+sZU2cstqLkGpLsFK cLP7a6oEFShTGltw3p9tShyEB+OPXtGj0tvGk3hq0MhSblh2ff2XlO7aFxCKtQ2N6r9F egjmAZNXtazifUDUeFA6wZmWa21b4ks7eQbzHBdJo9vI8ihtzClgUXE1QjzW1l8zU5/+ 9p0/sTpV7RXRHtDqbQkQ/XgNjv5Vw0DKhTZHt26dG/EFM1ctfh6f7nt7j8zyy0L9Hmtw YxfQ== Received: by 10.50.0.193 with SMTP id 1mr10311427igg.0.1350930034358; Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:20:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.64.176.134 with HTTP; Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:20:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <0e1901cdb07e$36b2fc80$a418f580$@olddog.co.uk> References: <0e1901cdb07e$36b2fc80$a418f580$@olddog.co.uk> From: Donald Eastlake Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 14:20:14 -0400 Message-ID: To: adrian@olddog.co.uk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org, isis-chairs@tools.ietf.org, trill-chairs@tools.ietf.org, draft-ierf-isis-rfc6326bis@tools.ietf.org, rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] Requesting a Routing Directorate review of draft-ietf-isis-rfc6326bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 18:20:36 -0000 Hi Adrian, This draft was presented to the ISIS WG at IETF-83 at which time about a dozen people indicated they had read it. Since ISIS didn't meet at IETF-84, at the suggestion of the ISIS Chairs I presented the draft to the TRILL WG. It has subsequently been moved to WG draft without objection. I have said I would be happy to present in Atlanta although I don't know what I would say that was different. I believe the draft is in good shape but Routing Directorate review has found things that could be improved in my drafts before and it seems certain that it will get a Routing Directorate review sooner or later. Do you think I should just wait a couple of weeks and ask for the draft to be Working Group Last Called if it seems appropriate at that time? Thanks, Donald PS: For some reason draft-ierf-isis-rfc6326bis@tools.ietf.org is not mapping correctly into the authors addresses. I have a message in to the secretariat about fixing that. ============================= Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 1:53 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote: > Hi Donald, > > What are you looking for in an early review? Is there something specific you > think the ISIS WG might not find, or perhaps you are worried that the WG is not > giving enough attention? > > Adrian > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Donald Eastlake [mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com] >> Sent: 22 October 2012 18:40 >> To: rtg-dir@ietf.org >> Cc: isis-chairs@tools.ietf.org; rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org; draft-ierf-isis- >> rfc6326bis@tools.ietf.org; trill-chairs@tools.ietf.org >> Subject: Requesting a Routing Directorate review of > draft-ietf-isis-rfc6326bis- >> 00.txt >> >> Hi, >> >> Would it be possible for me to request a Routing Directorate review of >> draft-ietf-isis-rfc6326bis? >> >> Thanks, >> Donald >> ============================= >> Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) >> 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA >> d3e3e3@gmail.com > From adrian@olddog.co.uk Mon Oct 22 11:54:20 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E594921F898B for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:54:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.332 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.332 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.267, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QBF3OISarCLm for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:54:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (asmtp4.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.175]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06F9F21F84C4 for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:54:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q9MIsHHf029237; Mon, 22 Oct 2012 19:54:17 +0100 Received: from 950129200 (dsl-sp-81-140-15-32.in-addr.broadbandscope.com [81.140.15.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id q9MIsF9d029224 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 22 Oct 2012 19:54:16 +0100 From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Donald Eastlake'" References: <0e1901cdb07e$36b2fc80$a418f580$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 19:54:14 +0100 Message-ID: <0e4601cdb086$a235e640$e6a1b2c0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQJulnW1w9Fk4P+akxJeKAXs3eisKwIttirNAh/BwTCWYXPLYA== Content-Language: en-gb Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org, isis-chairs@tools.ietf.org, trill-chairs@tools.ietf.org, draft-ietf-isis-rfc6326bis@tools.ietf.org, rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] Requesting a Routing Directorate review of draft-ietf-isis-rfc6326bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 18:54:20 -0000 Hi, [note was a typo s/ierf/ietf/in the tools alias, fixed in this email] I think best would be directed request to review on the ISIS list. Tell them you believe the I-D is ready for last call and that you will ask for that after Atlanta. Suggest now is a good time for IS-IS experts to have a look. We can certainly kick off an "early" review. Adrian > -----Original Message----- > From: Donald Eastlake [mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com] > Sent: 22 October 2012 19:20 > To: adrian@olddog.co.uk > Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org; isis-chairs@tools.ietf.org; rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org; draft-ierf- > isis-rfc6326bis@tools.ietf.org; trill-chairs@tools.ietf.org > Subject: Re: Requesting a Routing Directorate review of draft-ietf-isis-rfc6326bis- > 00.txt > > Hi Adrian, > > This draft was presented to the ISIS WG at IETF-83 at which time about > a dozen people indicated they had read it. Since ISIS didn't meet at > IETF-84, at the suggestion of the ISIS Chairs I presented the draft to > the TRILL WG. It has subsequently been moved to WG draft without > objection. I have said I would be happy to present in Atlanta although > I don't know what I would say that was different. I believe the draft > is in good shape but Routing Directorate review has found things that > could be improved in my drafts before and it seems certain that it > will get a Routing Directorate review sooner or later. Do you think I > should just wait a couple of weeks and ask for the draft to be Working > Group Last Called if it seems appropriate at that time? > > Thanks, > Donald > > PS: For some reason draft-ierf-isis-rfc6326bis@tools.ietf.org is not > mapping correctly into the authors addresses. I have a message in to > the secretariat about fixing that. > ============================= > Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) > 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA > d3e3e3@gmail.com > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 1:53 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote: > > Hi Donald, > > > > What are you looking for in an early review? Is there something specific you > > think the ISIS WG might not find, or perhaps you are worried that the WG is not > > giving enough attention? > > > > Adrian > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Donald Eastlake [mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com] > >> Sent: 22 October 2012 18:40 > >> To: rtg-dir@ietf.org > >> Cc: isis-chairs@tools.ietf.org; rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org; draft-ierf-isis- > >> rfc6326bis@tools.ietf.org; trill-chairs@tools.ietf.org > >> Subject: Requesting a Routing Directorate review of > > draft-ietf-isis-rfc6326bis- > >> 00.txt > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> Would it be possible for me to request a Routing Directorate review of > >> draft-ietf-isis-rfc6326bis? > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Donald > >> ============================= > >> Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) > >> 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA > >> d3e3e3@gmail.com > > From lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn Wed Oct 31 19:33:02 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21CA421F8526; Wed, 31 Oct 2012 19:33:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8-1MTjT0PG9I; Wed, 31 Oct 2012 19:33:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zte.com.cn (mx5.zte.com.cn [63.217.80.70]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56B0321F84A7; Wed, 31 Oct 2012 19:33:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mse02.zte.com.cn (unknown [10.30.3.21]) by Websense Email Security Gateway with ESMTPS id 0AEB612554A6; Thu, 1 Nov 2012 10:34:03 +0800 (CST) Received: from notes_smtp.zte.com.cn ([10.30.1.239]) by mse02.zte.com.cn with ESMTP id qA12WlAO043030; Thu, 1 Nov 2012 10:32:47 +0800 (GMT-8) (envelope-from lizhong.jin@zte.com.cn) In-Reply-To: <073c01cdac97$44e0ba30$cea22e90$@olddog.co.uk> To: adrian@olddog.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.5.4 March 27, 2005 Message-ID: From: Lizhong Jin Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 10:32:32 +0800 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes_smtp/zte_ltd(Release 8.5.3FP1 HF212|May 23, 2012) at 2012-11-01 10:32:30, Serialize complete at 2012-11-01 10:32:30 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 000DFD9548257AA9_=" X-MAIL: mse02.zte.com.cn qA12WlAO043030 Cc: rtg-dir@ietf.org, danli@huawei.com, rtg-dir-bounces@ietf.org, dbrungard@att.com, stbryant@cisco.com Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] Routing Directorate dinner in Atlanta X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2012 02:33:02 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 000DFD9548257AA9_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hi all, Because of some exceptions, I will cancel my trip to IETF85. Hope you all have a good time. Thanks Lizhong rtg-dir-bounces@ietf.org wrote 2012/10/18 02:43:13: > Definitely planning to go ahead with this on Wednesday evening (eventhough the > marathon plenary will be on Wednesday, not Monday). Expecting to gather at > around 7.45 and head out not too far. > > So far I have just 9 names on the Doodle poll. > Please sign up http://www.doodle.com/amc8mauqx6r4qddi > > Adrian > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rtg-dir-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:rtg-dir-bounces@ietf.org] > On Behalf Of > > Adrian Farrel > > Sent: 01 October 2012 23:06 > > To: rtg-dir@ietf.org > > Cc: danli@huawei.com; dbrungard@att.com; stbryant@cisco.com > > Subject: [RTG-DIR] Routing Directorate dinner in Atlanta > > > > Hi, > > > > Turns out there will only be a Monday night (marathon) plenary in Atlanta > which > > may leave us a little more free time to have dinner on Wednesday night. > > > > Stewart and I think that "beer and pizza" or equivalent will be > more flexible > > and interesting than a five course banquet. > > > > Could you please register your willingness to attend via > > http://www.doodle.com/amc8mauqx6r4qddi I'll leave the poll open for a while > > and > > try to prod you again before I close it. > > > > Oh, and for the avoidance of doubt, we love you all, but you get to pay your > own > > way! > > > > Cheers, > > Adrian and Stewart > --=_alternative 000DFD9548257AA9_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Hi all,
Because of some exceptions, I will cancel my trip to IETF85. Hope you all have a good time.

Thanks
Lizhong


rtg-dir-bounces@ietf.org wrote 2012/10/18 02:43:13:

> Definitely planning to go ahead with this on Wednesday evening (eventhough the
> marathon plenary will be on Wednesday, not Monday). Expecting to gather at
> around 7.45 and head out not too far.
>
> So far I have just 9 names on the Doodle poll.
> Please sign up http://www.doodle.com/amc8mauqx6r4qddi
>
> Adrian
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rtg-dir-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:rtg-dir-bounces@ietf.org]
> On Behalf Of
> > Adrian Farrel
> > Sent: 01 October 2012 23:06
> > To: rtg-dir@ietf.org
> > Cc: danli@huawei.com; dbrungard@att.com; stbryant@cisco.com
> > Subject: [RTG-DIR] Routing Directorate dinner in Atlanta
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Turns out there will only be a Monday night (marathon) plenary in Atlanta
> which
> > may leave us a little more free time to have dinner on Wednesday night.
> >
> > Stewart and I think that "beer and pizza" or equivalent will be
> more flexible
> > and interesting than a five course banquet.
> >
> > Could you please register your willingness to attend via
> > http://www.doodle.com/amc8mauqx6r4qddi I'll leave the poll open for a while
> > and
> > try to prod you again before I close it.
> >
> > Oh, and for the avoidance of doubt, we love you all, but you get to pay your
> own
> > way!
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Adrian and Stewart
>
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