From jsalowey@cisco.com Mon Apr 5 08:28:31 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: saag@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: saag@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 285123A687B for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2010 08:28:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.74 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.74 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.74, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C-GoaM7Gr6UT for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2010 08:28:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sj-iport-6.cisco.com (sj-iport-6.cisco.com [171.71.176.117]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 525553A6767 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2010 08:28:30 -0700 (PDT) Authentication-Results: sj-iport-6.cisco.com; dkim=neutral (message not signed) header.i=none X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvsEABKfuUurRN+J/2dsb2JhbACbSXGdZpd8hQcEgyQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.51,366,1267401600"; d="scan'208";a="509486488" Received: from sj-core-3.cisco.com ([171.68.223.137]) by sj-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Apr 2010 15:28:16 +0000 Received: from xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-221.cisco.com [128.107.191.63]) by sj-core-3.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o35FSGcW014208 for ; Mon, 5 Apr 2010 15:28:16 GMT Received: from xmb-sjc-225.amer.cisco.com ([128.107.191.38]) by xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 5 Apr 2010 08:28:16 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 08:28:13 -0700 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Summary for TLS at IETF 77 Thread-Index: AcrU1JspAbr1Wq1cRPW+wIC7XHORiA== From: "Joseph Salowey (jsalowey)" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2010 15:28:16.0894 (UTC) FILETIME=[9D3211E0:01CAD4D4] Subject: [saag] Summary for TLS at IETF 77 X-BeenThere: saag@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Security Area Advisory Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 15:28:31 -0000 TLS met after the SAAG meeting on Thursday. We are working through our existing tasks after putting them on hold during the renegotiation fix discussions. =20 The working group had discussion on using cryptographic hashes for non-cryptographic purposes in the context of the cached info draft. Some in the working group favor using a regular hash function such as FNV instead of SHA-1 to make the non-cryptographic usage clear. =20 It is likely that we will take up the DTLS heartbeat work as a working group item. We discussed issues using OCSP and other certificate validation mechanisms within TLS. It seems that at least part of this is a PKIX item. =20 From rgm-sec@htt-consult.com Sun Apr 11 14:58:45 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: saag@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: saag@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B91A23A697B for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 14:58:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RXZT6MLlyC9r for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 14:58:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from klovia.htt-consult.com (klovia.htt-consult.com [208.83.67.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E04F63A6974 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 14:58:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by klovia.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02AF268BA0 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 21:53:19 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at localhost Received: from klovia.htt-consult.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (klovia.htt-consult.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5eQPJWNuJCik for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 17:53:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nc2400.htt-consult.com (h155.home.htt [208.83.67.155]) (Authenticated sender: rgm-sec@htt-consult.com) by klovia.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2B74768B7D for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2010 17:53:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4BC245FF.2040507@htt-consult.com> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 17:58:23 -0400 From: Robert Moskowitz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100330 Fedora/3.0.4-1.fc12 Thunderbird/3.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: saag@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [saag] Fundamental ECC presentation will not open in OpenOffice X-BeenThere: saag@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Security Area Advisory Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 21:58:45 -0000 http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/10mar/slides/saag-3.pptx Will not open properly in OpenOffice 3.1 (what comes with F12). Can it be reposted in a more common format? From mcgrew@cisco.com Mon Apr 12 07:48:04 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: saag@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: saag@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB0833A68C3 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2010 07:48:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.455 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.455 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.144, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 80INhlVbK8eZ for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2010 07:48:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sj-iport-4.cisco.com (sj-iport-4.cisco.com [171.68.10.86]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4CB93A67FC for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2010 07:48:03 -0700 (PDT) Authentication-Results: sj-iport-4.cisco.com; dkim=neutral (message not signed) header.i=none X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvsEAH/PwkurRN+K/2dsb2JhbACbNHGiaphihQwEgyU X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.52,190,1270425600"; d="scan'208";a="113958069" Received: from sj-core-4.cisco.com ([171.68.223.138]) by sj-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 Apr 2010 14:47:58 +0000 Received: from stealth-10-32-254-214.cisco.com (stealth-10-32-254-214.cisco.com [10.32.254.214]) by sj-core-4.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.14.3) with ESMTP id o3CElv8F020267; Mon, 12 Apr 2010 14:47:57 GMT Message-Id: From: David McGrew To: Robert Moskowitz In-Reply-To: <4BC245FF.2040507@htt-consult.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 07:47:56 -0700 References: <4BC245FF.2040507@htt-consult.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.936) Cc: saag@ietf.org Subject: Re: [saag] Fundamental ECC presentation will not open in OpenOffice X-BeenThere: saag@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Security Area Advisory Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 14:48:04 -0000 Hi Bob, I'll unicast you (and anyone else that is interested) a PDF. David On Apr 11, 2010, at 2:58 PM, Robert Moskowitz wrote: > http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/10mar/slides/saag-3.pptx > > Will not open properly in OpenOffice 3.1 (what comes with F12). Can > it be reposted in a more common format? > > > _______________________________________________ > saag mailing list > saag@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/saag From turners@ieca.com Mon Apr 12 07:53:30 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: saag@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: saag@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 263C23A68C3 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2010 07:53:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.948 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.948 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.650, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mzA0l7n+Eyqq for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2010 07:53:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp112.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp112.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com [66.196.116.97]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 44CE23A67FC for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2010 07:53:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 15539 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2010 14:53:21 -0000 Received: from thunderfish.local (turners@96.231.117.128 with plain) by smtp112.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Apr 2010 07:53:21 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: ZrP3VLSswBDL75pF8ymZHDSu9B.vcMfDPgLJ X-YMail-OSG: ZwFuy00VM1l2eHpNzFvg628glzCbURP4nwMoAoNhX4ZYaPaho__fDVHn7hWW5PbkgtRMcorpdpPASJPXpYSjK1tOwbtg.MVakQ6zJs_urJoetOh8PuKYKgq8C04KWkXJY88lKaX_lLWQ7EMTDpI.yiTkvO.RgVONObCI.GpQQZmODBkzLZK_UGif5Vav_XH1QVeK38StUZ7lKAki7yjSHmgW1FdPXdmy1eyVyTL3eVohkpRBIJXgno0ybHdBjvB8UmXlfaj67N0AZYp7prKe1LZl1nV.NPXaexfbvp61VCU_qpbGxqgzYLlWeNMZGfsU1R6JWTHHGZl1yPWsVx0oRf4tkj5RHV.j43gVFlGn4rZyOvG.L1TfEPiRVoCWWhPN4op.OnuZetQbhxSwfw3DRhOQ0oZEl6IKjs3yHcRdUIISlbLZnOx_8gJzyNRiFR9ruy8xV2elfqzZHYPVE7U- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4BC333E0.8010504@ieca.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 10:53:20 -0400 From: Sean Turner User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Macintosh/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Moskowitz References: <4BC245FF.2040507@htt-consult.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: saag@ietf.org Subject: Re: [saag] Fundamental ECC presentation will not open in OpenOffice X-BeenThere: saag@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Security Area Advisory Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 14:53:30 -0000 I uploaded it in .pptx to allow us to use the animations while Dave presented. I'll upload all of the presentations in pdf shortly. spt David McGrew wrote: > Hi Bob, > > I'll unicast you (and anyone else that is interested) a PDF. > > David > > On Apr 11, 2010, at 2:58 PM, Robert Moskowitz wrote: > >> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/10mar/slides/saag-3.pptx >> >> Will not open properly in OpenOffice 3.1 (what comes with F12). Can >> it be reposted in a more common format? >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> saag mailing list >> saag@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/saag > > _______________________________________________ > saag mailing list > saag@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/saag > From rgm-sec@htt-consult.com Mon Apr 12 10:28:53 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: saag@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: saag@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19F1A3A6A65 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2010 10:28:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DiW-T-lBrnlF for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2010 10:28:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from klovia.htt-consult.com (klovia.htt-consult.com [208.83.67.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD12A3A6A41 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2010 10:27:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by klovia.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B45C68C76; Mon, 12 Apr 2010 17:21:38 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at localhost Received: from klovia.htt-consult.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (klovia.htt-consult.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cXf1DfUJSYN0; Mon, 12 Apr 2010 13:21:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nc2400.htt-consult.com (h155.home.htt [208.83.67.155]) (Authenticated sender: rgm-sec@htt-consult.com) by klovia.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 117E268C95; Mon, 12 Apr 2010 13:21:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4BC357BC.2080208@htt-consult.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 13:26:20 -0400 From: Robert Moskowitz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100330 Fedora/3.0.4-1.fc12 Thunderbird/3.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sean Turner References: <4BC245FF.2040507@htt-consult.com> <4BC333E0.8010504@ieca.com> In-Reply-To: <4BC333E0.8010504@ieca.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: saag@ietf.org Subject: Re: [saag] Fundamental ECC presentation will not open in OpenOffice X-BeenThere: saag@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Security Area Advisory Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 17:28:53 -0000 On 04/12/2010 10:53 AM, Sean Turner wrote: > I uploaded it in .pptx to allow us to use the animations while Dave > presented. I'll upload all of the presentations in pdf shortly. Can't do animations in .ppt???? It is the Office '07 that causes challenges more than not... > > spt > > David McGrew wrote: >> Hi Bob, >> >> I'll unicast you (and anyone else that is interested) a PDF. >> >> David >> >> On Apr 11, 2010, at 2:58 PM, Robert Moskowitz wrote: >> >>> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/10mar/slides/saag-3.pptx >>> >>> Will not open properly in OpenOffice 3.1 (what comes with F12). Can >>> it be reposted in a more common format? >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> saag mailing list >>> saag@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/saag >> >> _______________________________________________ >> saag mailing list >> saag@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/saag >> > From rgm-sec@htt-consult.com Tue Apr 27 05:35:36 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: saag@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: saag@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A7243A69DF for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2010 05:35:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.500, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EC0BK5XYBnGO for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2010 05:35:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from klovia.htt-consult.com (klovia.htt-consult.com [208.83.67.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A24A13A69BD for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2010 05:35:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by klovia.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4186368B40 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2010 12:29:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from klovia.htt-consult.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (klovia.htt-consult.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MrNKvFSXULmD for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2010 08:29:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nc2400.htt-consult.com (h155.home.htt [208.83.67.155]) (Authenticated sender: rgm-sec@htt-consult.com) by klovia.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7F95B68B26 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2010 08:29:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4BD6D9F8.7080300@htt-consult.com> Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 08:35:04 -0400 From: Robert Moskowitz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100330 Fedora/3.0.4-1.fc12 Thunderbird/3.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: saag@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [saag] Referenceable ECDSA signature RFC X-BeenThere: saag@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Security Area Advisory Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 12:35:36 -0000 Do we have an RFC (or even ID) that describes the ECDSA signature so that I can use it as normative text in 5201-bis? Even draft-mcgrew-fundamental-ecc-02.txt only references IEEE P1363 for interoperablity with KT-I. I suspect that I probably SHOULD reference draft-mcgrew-fundamental-ecc-02.txt, as KT-I may well be IPR free. From william.polk@nist.gov Tue Apr 27 05:38:18 2010 Return-Path: X-Original-To: saag@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: saag@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69C6E3A6984 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2010 05:38:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.568 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.568 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.031, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id phbMIPvH2OVZ for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2010 05:38:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.nist.gov (rimp2.nist.gov [129.6.16.227]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50C063A6975 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2010 05:38:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from WSXGHUB2.xchange.nist.gov (WSXGHUB2.xchange.nist.gov [129.6.18.19]) by smtp.nist.gov (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o3RCbpa4002754; Tue, 27 Apr 2010 08:37:51 -0400 Received: from MBCLUSTER.xchange.nist.gov ([fe80::d479:3188:aec0:cb66]) by WSXGHUB2.xchange.nist.gov ([129.6.18.19]) with mapi; Tue, 27 Apr 2010 08:37:35 -0400 From: "Polk, William T." To: "saag@ietf.org" Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 08:37:50 -0400 Thread-Topic: Draft saag minutes for IETF 77 posted Thread-Index: AcrmBnKUAyvTUFNDQUSKONudcgiMuQ== Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-NIST-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-NIST-MailScanner-From: william.polk@nist.gov Subject: [saag] Draft saag minutes for IETF 77 posted X-BeenThere: saag@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Security Area Advisory Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 12:38:18 -0000 Folks, Sean and I have posted draft saag minutes for IETF 77. http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/10mar/minutes/saag.txt Please take a minute for review; corrections can go to the list or directly to Sean and myself. Note that May 12 is the cutoff for corrections. Thanks again to Tero Kivinen for taking minutes. Tim Polk